Female Space Marines

[B_Steele]

Adeptus Astartes are not male by definition...

Unless, of course, you believe the Astartes-creation process is triggered to males only, which GW in the past has identified with.

[Bean]

I really don't get why people seem to associate marines and sisters so heavily in their minds. Sisters aren't marines. they're not even terribly similar. They're the militant army of the Imperial Church. They're not marines. They're not augmented, or altered, or super-human. They're well-trained and well-equipped female soldiers. They're not marines. Female marines would not be sisters. They wouldn't replace or invalidate sisters.

edit:
As far as the fluff goes, Steele's right. All of the established fluff which is relevant to the issue is either neutral on it or basically indicates that the Marine Making process works on males only.

It's certainly safe to say that there is no official recognition of a process by which female marines could be made within the Imperium. That's the sort of thing that would have shown up if it was meant to be there.

That being said, 40k fluff is very much 'anything goes'. All sorts of stuff is implied to be possible, and the limitations of the Imperium's knowledge are pretty severe. The assertion that female marines couldn't possibly exist is certainly unjustified.

[Lerra]

What do you think would happen if you plugged the 100% male primarch's DNA into the body of a female?

If you plug male DNA into the body of an existing female, she would stay female. There are tons of people living with cross-gender organ transplants in the real world. It's not a big deal.

Men and women are damn near identical on a genetic level. The differences are mostly developmental, not genetic. Just look at all of the genetic males with androgen insensitivity syndrome - they are 100% female appearing except that they are infertile. Most people with this disorder don't realize they are genetically male until they try to conceive. Gender is much more fluid than most people realize.

[EmperorEternalXIX]

I was thinking more along the lines of things like...huge muscles...super-solid bones...broad builds and a massive frame.

A woman brought to Space Marine standards would look just silly.

[Sangre]

If we're taking the 40k wiki, Lexicanum, at its word, only males can be made Space Marines, due to the genetics being keyed to male hormones and tissue types.

Of course that'll not shut any of you up. Especially Melissia.

[Lerra]

Here's the thing that I don't understand.

Let's say someone wants to make a Sea Orks army with fins and gills. There is no precedent for it in the fluff, but it's fun and different. Or let's say someone wants to make some zany variant of Tau, or Eldar, or whatever army you want. It doesn't exist in the fluff, but who cares? It's fun, it's your army, and I've never seen anyone cry foul on these weird variant armies. We've got a few Chaos Tau/Eldar armies locally and no one seems to have any problem with them.

There is something about female marines in particular that just gets the nerd rage flowing. You could probably build Chaos Necrons and get less flak than you would for female marines.

[B_Steele]

You could probably build Chaos Necrons and get less flak than you would for female marines.

Oh no. That would DEFINITELY get my goat faster. It doesn't change my feelings for female marines, but I just want to say that I am an equal-opportunity fluff-n@zi.

[Gotthammer]

Here's the thing that I don't understand.

Let's say someone wants to make a Sea Orks army with fins and gills. There is no precedent for it in the fluff, but it's fun and different. Or let's say someone wants to make some zany variant of Tau, or Eldar, or whatever army you want. It doesn't exist in the fluff, but who cares? It's fun, it's your army, and I've never seen anyone cry foul on these weird variant armies. We've got a few Chaos Tau/Eldar armies locally and no one seems to have any problem with them.

There is something about female marines in particular that just gets the nerd rage flowing. You could probably build Chaos Necrons and get less flak than you would for female marines.

People will believe the impossible, but not the improbable unfortunately

I'm all for more creativity - it's a shame that some people don't do things they want because it's not given to them by GW. I remember a couple of years ago someone proposing having their Space Wolves riding wolves instead of bikes. They got shouted down for it being stupid, no precedent in the background, GW would never do it etc etc... I don't think they ever did, and I'm sure the attitude displayed by some people then does nothing to help the hobby.

[Gotthammer]

If we're taking the 40k wiki, Lexicanum, at its word, only males can be made Space Marines, due to the genetics being keyed to male hormones and tissue types.

Of course that'll not shut any of you up. Especially Melissia.

Until recently lexicanum said Leman Russ dissapeared with the 13th Company...

And no, it won't shut us up because, you know, they've dropped that bit from the recent stuff and we're free to change it anyway if we want (and it's the year 40,00 and they're implanting organs that allow you to eat a dude's leg and steal his memories - I don't think getting an extra heart or bone/muscle boosting organ to work in a woman will be a big deal [if it is they could always ask the talking fungus men]).

[FirBholg]

I'd say that the main problem is really the lack of visibility of female models/characters in the 40k game - though I would hazard a guess that more female gamers might be interested 40k if there were more obvious female models.
The most obvious contenders, the Adeptus Sororitas, suffer from a lack of exposure and support (don't get me wrong, I've loved the Sororitas since Sister Sin in Rogue Trader, and I was just starting to paint up a marine model in Sororitas colours when they announced the Sisters of Battle Codex for 2nd ed, but the current model range is expensive and rarely seen). Equally, while helmeted heads makes sense from the perspective of realism, in terms of aesthetics you need to be able to identify the mini as female at a glance.

I've always said that I'd like to do at least two commanders for any force, one male and one female. Obviously, that won't work for everything (orks, for example), and I imagine when I get around to marines I'll include a female Ordo Malleus inquisitor as an option. Frankly, even one or two options would be nice, though if ForgeWorld did decide to make a unit of female Cadians (for example) in the vein of the female Cap Troopers from Mongoose's ill-fated Starship Troopers line (a boxed unit that could be used on its own or equally spread between other - male - units to provide some gender diversity), I'd be tempted...

As is, the only female mini's currently available for 40k are the Calidus Temple assassin and Death Cultists, as well as the Ordo Hereticus inquisitor for Witch Hunters, the Battle Sisters (of course), and Commander Shadowsun for the Tau (with helmeted and bare-headed variants! Go Tau!). Then we've got the Eldar, which are reasonably well mixed (I'd be curious to see some stats as to the proportion of female players who play Eldar).
When you compare that to Fantasy Battle (alledgedly more played by female gamers - again I'd love to see some stats) which has female leader minis for all the (non-monstrous) races bar Empire and Warriors of Chaos (though they do have an awesome female special character) 40k doesn't come off so well.
Hell, the only female gamer I know in my area just plays Warmachine (which has some fantastic, non-exaggerated female sculpts).

It's a real shame, because it's not like there isn't a precedence for strong female characters in the 40k universe (the Inquisitor range had a really nice variety of female characters, and enough appear in various books and short stories).