Female Space Marines

[Lindargo]

I have to agree, a squad of female Eldar would be cool. (nobody say banshees...)
Maybe a bits pack could be produced with 10 female heads would be cool. (a space marines chest is big enough anyway!)
Lin,

[Gotthammer]

I am doubtful of most of GW's sculptors abilities to sculpt decent female faces, so go Hasslefree: [url]http://hasslefreeminiatures.co.uk/range.php?range_id=60[/url]

[Melissia]

But that's no reason for them not to try. Imagine if they made such beautiful models, full of detail and looking like actual females, but without going to blatant and easy route of the boob-cups-- A great deal of people might purchase those models just to purchase them, not even ever intending to play the army, just like how people purchase Repentia even though the squad's rules are amongst the bottom three of all units in 40K.

[Lerra]

The newer female Fantasy models from GW look fine to me. I don't see any reason why new 40k models wouldn't be up to that standard. GW's sculpting team has gotten a lot better since 2nd ed.

I'd love to see more female models from GW. It would mean less time hunting down female models from other companies, and less time converting.

Even if it doesn't attract more female gamers, lots of people enjoy painting and fielding female models. Especially when by the fluff, there should be a good percentage of females in certain armies (IG, Eldar, possible DE?).

[Just_Me]

I refuse to walk in the hellish debating mire that is the question “can women be Astartes,” and would advise others to do the same. I will however say this much, the masculine/feminine labels have no relevance for marines; from a biological perspective they refer only to structural differences related to reproduction, which marines do not do, and from a sociological perspective they refer to differences in gender roles in society, which are irrelevant to marines as all of them are BY DEFINITION expected to fill the same warrior role. The exclusively masculine terms used by the Astartes are a holdover to denote comradeship with the gender assignment having little real meaning.

Guardswomen on the other hand are something I can really get behind. In logical terms there is no biological basis for women not serving alongside men on a modern battlefield. In ancient time the superior upper body strength of men is what made them the nearly exclusive choice for soldiers, this was a huge factor when your only mode of attack was muscle driven (i.e. bashing someone with a blunt/sharp object or drawing back a missile weapon based on tensile strength). In terms of lower body strength men and women are comparable (in fact women on average probably have proportionally greater lower body strength than men). In modern warfare the important concerns are carrying gear (something that relies on lower, not upper body strength) and the ability to aim and fire weapon. As someone who has been a target marksman I can say without a shadow of a doubt that there is no difference whatsoever in the performance of men and women in that regard, in fact the various forms of firearms marksmanship are to my knowledge the only sport where men and women compete together. The only barriers to fully integrated military service in modern warfare are sociological ones, and they are not as insurmountable as some people seem to think.

My own regiment in fluff terms is a mixed gender unit, and I am the proud owner of 10 Cadian style female guardsmen models from the now (apparently) defunct phoenix wargamers club that are spread throughout my squads. The models look awesome and I would dearly like more, but despite the repeated efforts of the gentleman who cast them I never received my second batch, replacement shipments were repeatedly lost in transit, I know for a fact that I was not scammed, as I have the first batch to prove that the models existed (that was $30 I could have spent elsewhere…). Unfortunately that site (which had some truly awesome ideas and models knocking around) seems to have finally died for good, though if anyone here is/was familiar with it and can give me some information on the site itself or the Guardswomen models in particular I would love it if you could send me a PM.

Personally I would love to see some female equivalents for at least the Cadian models from GW, after all the fluff explicitly states that EVERY Cadian, regardless of gender or social position, serves in the military during the course of their lives (“the birth rate and the recruitment rate are synonymous”). Realistically though, I don’t see it happening… Would it go a long ways towards evening the gender ratio in this game? Yes I think it would do something, but I don’t think it would really make a huge impact, I suspect that the reason more women don’t play this game has more to do with far broader social issues rather than the lack of readily available female armies.

In cases of women in armor it is very true that there is no practical reason to have armor that parallels female anatomy, and a good number of reasons not to, the armor on my Guardswomen model certainly do not have anything more than a barely perceptible greater bulge than the male equivalent. However, having said there are two reasons why I don’t have a huge problem with the various Witch Hunters models. First, in fluff terms the power armour and function of the Sororitas is a much symbolic as practical, not that they are anything less than very effective soldiers, but they are as much symbols of spirituality as they are soldiers and some of their equipment sacrifices some function in favor of emblematically dictated design. To this end their feminine identity is symbolically important to them, so the fact that their armour emphasizes this does not seem as out of place as it should. The second is a purely mundane concern, on a 28mm figure the subtleties of facial form and body build that distinguish male from female are not easily apparent. Sculpting armor to emphasize the ah, most distinctive structural characteristics of the female form aids in this distinction. What they really need to work on is the faces of their female models, the newer female Hereticus inquisitors are slightly better at this (and really are some very nice models that I think are often overlooked), but the Sororitas faces are… meh… Beyond the added gender identification effect I really don’t see why they shouldn’t all be able to wear helmets for one thing, they are in power armour, having all that protection and going bareheaded is just certifiably stupid unless you have a plausibly good reason like being a psyker (or the shear awesomeness factor of the model offsets practical issues, like with the Solomon Lok or Hector Rex models).

On an entirely unrelated note, I can’t help but notice that the forum censored me when I used the word “N a z i” in a half jesting description of the Imperium, but apparently has no issue with “tits” (George Carlin, eat your heart out) or “boobs” in this thread. Not sure what logic is governing the censoring algorithms on this site, what parent or hyper-sensitive person is going to say “I don’t mind talking about human sexual characteristics in slang terms, but please don’t expose me to the unpleasant parts of history.” …sigh… I am going to get in trouble for that last bit aren’t I?

[Lerra]

The filter does seem a little odd . . . but most are. I'm not quite sure why it is implemented at all. It seems like most members here are 20+, and the younger members are gamers and have certainly heard the whole vocabulary before. Things tend to stay pretty clean around here anyway, regardless of the filter.

Anyways, back on track. I'm excited for plastic Sisters. I hope they keep the boob-armor just so that they are identifiably female from a distance, but I'm hoping they are modelled as holy warriors and not as sex objects. My worst nightmare is Sisters done in a Werner Klocke style with huge boobs hanging out of their armor.

[Emperorsmercy]

^ Could be a design element to attract people to buy the models, as guys do like boobs. As impractical as it is.

I'm sorry, that was rather ignorant and ill-thought out. I've been awake for 24 hours straight; I'm a bit foggy.

Then you should probably get some sleep, before someone clobbers you

[Marshal2Crusaders]

There is no debate. Women can't be Space Marines. No way around it unless you bend the fluff, and if you bend the fluff you are wrong.

[Gotthammer]

There is no debate. Women can't be Space Marines. No way around it unless you bend the fluff, and if you bend the fluff you are wrong.

What fluff? Nothing in any of the marine codexes or the rulebook that says women can't be marines. I don't have the Black Templar's codex so feel free to quote if it contains a prohibition, or point me to a book I can purchase at my GW tomorrow when I'm there that will say such a thing.

There are out of print books that do, but there are out of print books that say a lot of things. Things like "feel free to change any of the background to suit yourself" to paraphrase

[Marshal2Crusaders]

What fluff? Nothing in any of the marine codexes or the rulebook that says women can't be marines. I don't have the Black Templar's codex so feel free to quote if it contains a prohibition, or point me to a book I can purchase at my GW tomorrow when I'm there that will say such a thing.

There are out of print books that do, but there are out of print books that say a lot of things. Things like "feel free to change any of the background to suit yourself" to paraphrase

The line in Index Astartes. Until something published contradicts it, it stays true.


You can argue all you like, you are still wrong. Having Female Space Marines is less about creativity and more about a passive aggressive 'f' you to the established fluff. Sure the models may look nice, I could also make an Eldar Army with 'Space Marine' Aspect Warriors and 'Guardsmen' Guardians, it doesnt make it possible.