Abaddon the Despoiler: Fun ADB Blogpost

[eldargal]

*sigh*

Can't argue against a brick wall, since words aren't a hammer. You're taking far too human-esque a line in comparing normal human emotions with what is suppose to be a post-mortal warrior who has spent 10,000 inside the Warp and spending that entire time focused upon gaining more power and using it to achieve what his dead overlord couldn't. I again, stress, that vanity and doubt do not fit that sort of character. Doubt is something reserved for a being who does not see himself/herself winning in the end; and vanity is reserved for characters who see in others what they wish they had in themselves, and so amplify themselves to feed that dark emotion.

But, I won't waste any more words on it.

No offense but it isn't a brick wall, you just aren't making a particularly compelling argument. This is a chap who has spent ten thousand years resisting the lure of Chaos AND fighting to conquer an Imperium that will never accept him. If at some point he wasn't asking himself whether or not the only real reason he was continuing was because he was too proud to admit it won't work then it would be a very superficial characterisation indeed.

[Katharon]

No offense but it isn't a brick wall, you just aren't making a particularly compelling argument. This is a chap who has spent ten thousand years resisting the lure of Chaos AND fighting to conquer an Imperium that will never accept him. If at some point he wasn't asking himself whether or not the only real reason he was continuing was because he was too proud to admit it won't work then it would be a very superficial characterisation indeed.

He has never desired to be "accepted' by the Imperium; he's after to conquer it. Also, I wouldn't call each of the Black Crusades failures. From a military stand point, he's been slowly gathering and achieving objectives that get him further each time he essays out from the Eye of Terror. Think of it like stepping stones -- each foray out is him laying down future groundwork for where he will be again, and quickly pass by. The capture of the Blackstone Fortresses is a perfect example. He's gaining tactical advantages that will serve in the long-term strategic game of conquering.

And again, while it might seem as if he is a better character for having doubt, then he isn't the true Warmaster of Chaos. It just isn't a flaw his character, or the position his character is in, should have in my opinion. (And again, it's just my opinion.)

[ElectricPaladin]

He has never desired to be "accepted' by the Imperium; he's after to conquer it...

Read the Horus Heresy. A very clear impetus for the rebellion of the Astartes was the fear - probably justified - that they were merely a means to an end, and that once the Crusade was over, the Emperor would turn his back on them. They were beings bred for war, and they feared that the war would come to a close and they would become... inconvenient, and be removed, with all the Emperor's characteristic efficiency.

And again, while it might seem as if he is a better character for having doubt, then he isn't the true Warmaster of Chaos. It just isn't a flaw his character, or the position his character is in, should have in my opinion. (And again, it's just my opinion.)

That makes no sense to me. Being without doubt would make him a mustache twirling "next time Gadget!" kind of character.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It's like a brick wall because you're trying to argue that the description of a character, by that character's owners, creators and writers, is somehow wrong. You can disagree, but it's their character. They can write him as they desire. You can do what you like with him - that's the name of the game - but it's their character. What's to argue with?

[eldargal]

He has never desired to be "accepted' by the Imperium; he's after to conquer it. Also, I wouldn't call each of the Black Crusades failures. From a military stand point, he's been slowly gathering and achieving objectives that get him further each time he essays out from the Eye of Terror. Think of it like stepping stones -- each foray out is him laying down future groundwork for where he will be again, and quickly pass by. The capture of the Blackstone Fortresses is a perfect example. He's gaining tactical advantages that will serve in the long-term strategic game of conquering.

And again, while it might seem as if he is a better character for having doubt, then he isn't the true Warmaster of Chaos. It just isn't a flaw his character, or the position his character is in, should have in my opinion. (And again, it's just my opinion.)

Well I don't mean accepted in the sense people are going to turn around and go 'We love you Abby!' but rather they would never accept him ruling them, it would be total would until either the IoM or Abaddons forces are annihilated and either way he loses what he seems to be fighting for. Also I didn't say the Black Crusaders were failures, that is too simplistic. As you say it is about laying the groundwork for future plans.

But wondering if he is just doing it because he won't accept being ruled by a Corpse God or a Chaos god rather than whatever other reasons he tells himself isn't the same as doubting himself. Self reflection and self awareness are far from character flaws.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

It should also be noted that this has been presented as an 'every once in a while...' kind of thing. Chaos ebbs and flows; these are the kinds of thoughts which find Abaddon at a low ebb. But then it, and he, all come roaring back.