Who needs balance when you can have sales?

[Kaptain Badrukk]

No no no, it's....

GRAV GUNS ARE HAX! Spashe Marinez OP my WRAITHKNIGHT will be gibbedby GRAV BIKERS for 100 pts they cant even balance Vulkan REROLL meltas for FREE. OMG BRO wtf was Crud thinking. FFS my eldar are boned, yo?

??
If you're having some kind of seizure I highly recommend calling for a medical professional.
Otherwise I assume you're speaking in some kind of tongues in which case
"The Power of [insert deity here] compels you!"

[Mr Mystery]

chaos had more new options this edition than loyalists have with the fiends, warp talons, mutilators, helldrake, cultists (as a permanent fixture and not a legion specific thing) plus the marks and icons together doing great things and more widely available. space marines got the AA tank, the centurions, and some tweaks to existing stuff.

YEs yes yes. But you have to remember, apparently, all those things, after extensive personal play testing, and rigorous number crunching, are apparently utterly worthless. Because they aren't Spikey Marines.

[lattd]

Exactly Mr mystery, we must all remember that CSM must be all the best bits of marines plus demons and ramped up to 11 because they need to break the game again. We cant have this new concept of every army being unique, where CSM are depraved self centered warriors who used demons that can pump out plasma cannons on a very resilient platform or who have a demonic engine that can charge through cover, both similarly priced to a wraithknight or riptide. So why are the latter two seen as pretty awesome where as the former are never mentioned.

[Learn2Eel]

??
If you're having some kind of seizure I highly recommend calling for a medical professional.
Otherwise I assume you're speaking in some kind of tongues in which case
"The Power of [insert deity here] compels you!"

I was doing my best to mimic the efforts of the noble internet trolls who populate the hobby...I saw recently someone blaming Ward for how "over-powered" grav guns were.

Exactly Mr mystery, we must all remember that CSM must be all the best bits of marines plus demons and ramped up to 11 because they need to break the game again. We cant have this new concept of every army being unique, where CSM are depraved self centered warriors who used demons that can pump out plasma cannons on a very resilient platform or who have a demonic engine that can charge through cover, both similarly priced to a wraithknight or riptide. So why are the latter two seen as pretty awesome where as the former are never mentioned.

Not sure how to respond, but just to make sure, you aren't actually comparing the Forgefiend and Maulerfiend to the Riptide and Wraithknight in a serious sense, right?

[Learn2Eel]

chaos had more new options this edition than loyalists have with the fiends, warp talons, mutilators, helldrake, cultists (as a permanent fixture and not a legion specific thing) plus the marks and icons together doing great things and more widely available. space marines got the AA tank, the centurions, and some tweaks to existing stuff.

Chapter Tactics completely changes how an army uses a tonne of units in the codex. Imperial Fists approach Devastators completely uniquely to any other force, while Salamanders popularize specific uses of Assault Marines and Tactical Marines that other armies wouldn't dare to use. The new units are almost arbitrary compared to the staggering array of combos that Chapter Tactics gives us. Chaos may have received two new characters and five new units while Space Marines were landed with no characters (unless you include Black Templars) and four units, but the army-wide changes brought about by Chapter Tactics more than make up for any deficiency in that sense.

[Mr Mystery]

Without being overpowering!

They're pleasant little thematic rewards, costs factored in across the army.

[Learn2Eel]

I agree. The basic Marine gets a lot of good stuff for what you pay for. Unfortunately, it does really expose how badly valued Chaos Space Marines (the Troopers) are. Besides, in 6th Edition, Tau and Eldar laugh at you for paying more for Troops!

[lattd]

The same amount of combos and change that marks and icons provide? If people want to play the heresy then look at forgeworld, CSM are not the legions and should play differently. Why not review the fiends, no one has done it in a while and the meta has changed a lot. Actually why not review CSM and DA again now we have some more 6th edition dex's. This edition has been about constant change but too quickly have we sunk into this is good this isn't but without comparing things regular.ly

[Mr Mystery]

I dunno.

CSM come pretty well equipped, and be a dual shooty/choppy unit to boot. And come in much larger units if you want them to. And are backed up by cheap, disposable, but actually not-too-bad-due-to-sheer-volume Cultists, something loyalist Marine's don't get. And that horde can be fearless by dropping in a Dark Apostle....

[Kirsten]

Chapter Tactics completely changes how an army uses a tonne of units in the codex.

not at all, it gives a few perks to people playing in character with their chapter. the benefit to imperial fists devastators is a minor one, it just makes them a little more attractive in an organisation slot with a huge amount of competition. Shrike used to give the Raven Guard fleet, and was probably the best marine character in 6th prior to the new dex, fleet is an amazing rule. now only assault marines get something similar. perks for themed lists, hardly ground breaking.