Grey Knight Origins and CSM Parallels

[daboarder]

he still ends up as a corpse then, but I imagine his demise shall be glorious indeed.

[Bob821]

I got the feeling from The Emperor's Gift that The Grey Night believe themselves to be of higher quality stock than the Primarch founded Legions/chapters. The implication to me was there 'Primarch' was the emperor. If they were created from the genetic material of a few scattered bods from various different legions why would that make the 'better' in there opinion then say an Ultra Marine or Salamander?

[nathaneal246]

I got the feeling from The Emperor's Gift that The Grey Night believe themselves to be of higher quality stock than the Primarch founded Legions/chapters. The implication to me was there 'Primarch' was the emperor. If they were created from the genetic material of a few scattered bods from various different legions why would that make the 'better' in there opinion then say an Ultra Marine or Salamander?

That's a long shot, if they were made from the Primarchs geneseed, if there was one, that would put them on par with the Primarchs themselves as they each had part of the Emperor in them! I believe they used the geneseed from the two Primarchs that were never found!

If there was an Emperors geneseed then that's what is used by the Custodian Guard!

[Cpt Codpiece]

I got the feeling from The Emperor's Gift that The Grey Night believe themselves to be of higher quality stock than the Primarch founded Legions/chapters. The implication to me was there 'Primarch' was the emperor. If they were created from the genetic material of a few scattered bods from various different legions why would that make the 'better' in there opinion then say an Ultra Marine or Salamander?

thing is after the heresy the imperium went a bit stupid.
legionaries from heresy era were better than current (M41) marines, as their zygotes were made slowly, rather than rushed like M41 era. and obviously they had the source they could just go and prod the primarch with a pointy stick and make more marines that way from pure sources.

i dont think the GK will turn out to be anything extra special. they have better equipment.... and specialist training, almost complete brainwashing compared to the forced training and meditation of chapter line troops.
the emperor was not present when malcador was selecting 'his' knights errant, he was busy taking names (literally) on the golden throne, trying to keep the warp from rupturing over terra.
while malcador was ancient and wise he was not the emperor, he held on to religious beliefs from the past (he had a bible and other books of power, in his personal museum), the entire GK creed is that of the witch hunters and inquisition (real world), just men of a religious 'calling', rather than an army of Jesus' (as would be if they were all made from the emperors stock... like the primarchs).

the other two primarchs were found at one point, they are the lost and the damned. they are also mentioned multiple times in the heresy books and implied that russ had his way with them, or at least one of them.

[biffster666]

Very kewl thread. I'm a big GK fan, they're army #3

How about Cypher as one of the original 8?

Stern or Thawn = Typhus?

Was one of the Thousand Sons mentioned in a previous post from Battle for The Abyss? Name totally escapes me, and I don't remember if he died or not. He'd be a good candidate for the list if he didn't. Wasn't the World Eater named Scar? He was awesome.

The Emporer's Gift, awesome book where the Space Wolves prove yet again they are, and always will be, the kewlest/bad@$$ Legion ever. Grimmnar killing the GM = priceless Bjorn turning the Inquisitor into a jibbering ball of goo = priceless. That book was full of GK/SW awesomeness!

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Very kewl thread. I'm a big GK fan, they're army #3

How about Cypher as one of the original 8?

Stern or Thawn = Typhus?

Was one of the Thousand Sons mentioned in a previous post from Battle for The Abyss? Name totally escapes me, and I don't remember if he died or not. He'd be a good candidate for the list if he didn't. Wasn't the World Eater named Scar? He was awesome.

You talking about M'hoteph. He was on my list until I found out about Arvida. And after hearing Grey Angel I crossed Cypher of my list of possible Astartes.

[biffster666]

Thanks Lord Lorne, I'm on the road until next week so I don't have my HH novels handy and I was being lazy and didn't want to google it. Arvida is from? (yup, lazy again) I haven't picked up Grey Angel yet, I'll have to order it for sure now heh heh.

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

Thanks Lord Lorne, I'm on the road until next week so I don't have my HH novels handy and I was being lazy and didn't want to google it. Arvida is from? (yup, lazy again) I haven't picked up Grey Angel yet, I'll have to order it for sure now heh heh.

Arvida is from Rebirth a short story in Age of Darkness. He was a Thousand Sons, Sargent, Pre-cog, who lived to tell the tale of Prospero after the War. He had a run in on Prospero some time after the War there, with World Eaters led by Kharn. He should be in a cave waiting for the Khan to find him if things play out as it looks. Some feel he will be the founding Lord of the Blood Ravens but I think he has greater fate in that he will be a Grey Knight Founding Grandmaster. .../Flesh CHANGE!/

[bladeofdeath3]

If you read The Gates of Terra short story, but Nick Kyme, there's a small blurb about lifting the Edict of Nikaea.

*Possible Spoilers ahead*
Malcador tells Dorn that "The ends justify the means. We are talking about survival." Dorn responds that he is "uncomfortable" with what Malcador is doing. Malcador finally responds "Of course you are. This is why I need your confidence. This is why it had to be only you that knew about it. We do not tread lightly over our Father’s edicts." and that "He must never know." Over the course of the story, Umojen, was referenced by Malcador. If you don't remember, Umojen was the Chief Librarian of the Salamanders prior to the Council of Nikaea. After that it is shown that there are "Hundreds of chambers were revealed, their subjects under psychic trance, each presided over by a Librarian from diverse Legions sent back to Terra by Captain Garro and his cohorts."

Seeing this means implies that Malcador began recruiting Librarians to be part of the Chapter after Nikaea. While they may not be the founding masters of the Grey Knights, I feel that this story is very important to the lore of the Grey Knights. It seems that Malcador created the Grey Knights out of necessity, and that the Emperor didn't entirely sanction what the Chapter was becoming. As for Loken returning from the "dead", I really didn't like that...

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

If you read The Gates of Terra short story, but Nick Kyme, there's a small blurb about lifting the Edict of Nikaea.

<snip>
Seeing this means implies that Malcador began recruiting Librarians to be part of the Chapter after Nikaea. While they may not be the founding masters of the Grey Knights, I feel that this story is very important to the lore of the Grey Knights. It seems that Malcador created the Grey Knights out of necessity, and that the Emperor didn't entirely sanction what the Chapter was becoming. As for Loken returning from the "dead", I really didn't like that...

Yup, and if you did not like the return of Loken how will you take Tarvitz's? You may not agree with this but if you think of who were the main characters in the opening Trilogy and see that they were the few, loyalist survivors of Horus's Expeditionary fleet. We did not read from their prospective just because they were there but because they lived to tell the tale. Now not ALL the perspectives were from the survivors.. Ignace Karkasy , maggared, Jubal, but if you count Loken and Tarvitz as survivors then it is the VAST majority of them. I've been saying this for years...