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  1. #11
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    If your set on the Warlords and army in general revolving around nightfight.

    then I'd drop the "choose" and 3+ roll for determining nightfight from the list and either give them a special rule or piece of wargear that either allows you to choose which turn nightfight is on, or re-roll the dice for determining nightfight depending on points.

    that way the army isn't rellying on a D6 roll to do what it is supposed to do.\

    infact, make cry of the nighthaunter a relic that allows the bearer to re-roll the dice when determining nightfighting (either way) and drop the points a little.

    would be a good way of letting the nightlords "choose" the battlefield, against a superior assualt army that is immune to fear (nids) it would let you try and engage them during the day, thus ensuring they did not get hte benefit of nightfight. But against an army like tau it would ensure you live long enough to get into a position to hammer their lines.
    Last edited by daboarder; 09-16-2013 at 07:16 PM.
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
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  2. #12

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    no just no, chosen are not even in the same ball park as sternguard.
    Quite agree. Their lack of combat effectiveness is irrelevant; all that matters is their role in the army.

    Chosen are the Chaos Veterans designed to shoot well, not assault. They don't get special issue ammo because Chaos doesn't have access to munitoriums, but they do all get special weapons, which Sternguard don't.

    The Chaos Assault Veterans are Warp Talons, as those are elite assault troops. You have fundamentally misunderstood what the two represent.

    Shooty marine elites = Sternguard/Chosen.
    Assaulty marine elites = Vanguard/Warp Talons.
    Assault marine basics = Assault Marines/Raptors.

    further more your effective range is taking into account a maximum charge roll, thats not effective range. effective range would be +7'
    I didn't mention assault range. I mentioned threat bubble, which is a shooting concept. I'm talking about shooting. Chosen with jump packs are LETHAL. They jump 12", then shoot meltaguns 12" - that is an effective threat range of 24"; 36" if equipped with plasma. Which, in the current meta, they will be.

    The fact you haven't considered this shows the flaw in your design.

    packs on the chosen are fine, york you don't exactly see BA honour guard special weapon squads being OMGWTFBBQ!
    False equivelancy: Honour Guard can't take special weapons. If they could, trust me: you'd see them.

    36" plasma guns, followed by a charge with three attacks each? Four if they're carrying bolt pistol and CCW?! Madness.
    Last edited by YorkNecromancer; 09-17-2013 at 03:01 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by YorkNecromancer View Post
    False equivelancy: Honour Guard can't take special weapons. If they could, trust me: you'd see them.

    36" plasma guns, followed by a charge with three attacks each? Four if they're carrying bolt pistol and CCW?! Madness.
    Re-read your BA codex york

    Blood angels honour guards may take up to 4 special weapons and have a sanguinary priest included to boot.

    and no you can't charge after shooting your plasma guns.
    Morbid Angels:http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?7100-Morbid-angel-WIP
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  4. #14

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    I personally think that Jump Pack Chosen will be fine. As I've been running theoreticals on this dex, I have yet to actually take them; they're 25 points a model + 4 specials, but Raptors are 17 points a model, and can already take 2 plasma guns, 1 plasma pistol (Champ) and score for me.

    I would go so far as to say their jump packs should go down to +6 pts/model. This is intentionally double the price of new Vanguard Vets jump packs, to reflect that Chosen don't do the Van/Stern split, but instead have a little of everything. And they're still not game-breaking, or a must have; they don't get Sternguard special ammo, and they don't get Vanguard multi-charge (hey if both piles of fire warriors are already going to overwatch you, might as well grab both of em and spread the love!). Most importantly, they don't get drop pods. You can talk 24-36" threat bubble, but that still doesn't compare to the "I'm standing right next to you with those guns on Turn 1" threat bubble.
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  5. #15
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    Yeah, they don't role differentiate, which was the point.
    They're capable of tooling up for HTH with more special CCWs than Raptor OR more shooting weapons. But you pay the price and they're not scoring. They do have a huge threat bubble, which justifies the nearly 30pts per model.
    Base + VOTLW + SOTOL + JP + Plasma = 44pts!
    For that you can deepstrike in a terminator, or for less than the price of two you can take an obliterator. And I don't think i have to show why 1 obliterator is better than 2 of these guys against nearly everything.
    After testing I'm not sure i'd make it cheaper, 25pts for a 2 attack non-scoring raptor with a boltgun seemed about right.
    But hey, until someone PLAYTESTS THEM, what do we know. I've had another couple of simulated games and I'm wavering on some of the wargear points.
    Claws too cheap, spear too expensive, tabbard too cheap.
    The warlord table bears out over playtesting for the most part, apart from "master of stealth" which is utterly pointless unless your warlord is nobbing about on his own.
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  6. #16
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Night Lords Legion Warbands v1.pdf 
Views:	75 
Size:	78.8 KB 
ID:	5177
    Well it's ready.
    I re-jigged Sons of the Old Legion a bit, bringing selecting it more in line with marks.
    York will pitch a fit (if he can be bothered to take part) because the stuff that he totally knee-jerked without testing (or in fact reading the nightfight and existing mission rules) is still there (and in some cases it's improved or cheaper).

    As for jump-chosen;
    I made them 2 points cheaper, as a reaction to Vanguard points re-distribution in the new dex.

    Warlord Traits
    I've fixed "master of stealth".
    I've still left "guaranteed" nightfight as 1/2 the warlord table, because sometimes it's just not going to work out your way.
    Although in fairness since it's in all 6 core missions anyway...................

    The Wargear's been re-jigged and I've taken on board people's points cost contributions. I also went away and re-read Betrayal, the new SM book and had a chance to look at Massacre. Seeing the epicness of primarch weapons and the new marine weapons the three here really don't seem that hardcore after all.

    All in all it's tweaked and twizzled but much the same. I've playtested it pretty well and although I still want other people to keep trying it out and coming back to me I think it's pretty balanced against most 6th books. It's a bit more potent than standard CSM in ways, and less in others. If you stick to SOTOL units, then it balances out fine.

    Watch this forum for Iron Warriors, coming next (once the simulated games are finished).
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Night Lords Legion Warbands v1.pdf  
    Last edited by Kaptain Badrukk; 09-30-2013 at 08:17 AM. Reason: Updated PDF
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  7. #17

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    Give them the Legion Astartes (night lords) From the HH2 book.

    Talent for murder: If one or more units with Legion Astartes (Night Lords) outnumber one or more enemy Infantry suqads during the initiative step in which they fight they gain +1 to wound, Bulky models count as two and Very Bulky count as three for outnumbering purposes.

    Nostroman Blood: All units with this rule fall back +1" further then normal, they may also opt to fall back instead of becoming pinned as if they had failed a moral check from shooting

    Night Vision: All models in the primary detachment chosen from night lords have the USR night vision (not just units with the Legion Astartes (Night Lords) Special rule

    From The Shadows: All models with the Legion Astartes (Night Lords) special rules have a 6+ cover save on the first turn of the game. This can be combined with stealth and shrouded but can be superseded by actual cover.

    Seeds of Dissent: If your Warlord is slain each unit with Legion Astartes (Night Lords) must take a moral check as if they have suffered 25% losses from shooting

    And then add

    Life Before Honor: Night Lords may refuse challenges, in place of being moved to the back of the combat they remain in place and may still fight. Though they must do so at -1 WS and at half their number of attacks rounded down.
    Last edited by Demonicsarge55; 10-01-2013 at 07:04 PM.

  8. #18
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    These are all cool ideas, but I'm trying to show these guys as a natural evolution from what the Nightlords were in the HH to what they are today. Hence gaining some skills but losing others.
    After all the HH stuff is for HH, this is for 10,000 years later. Where, like it or not, the influence of chaos has swept over the Nightlords and they're fighting a bitterly personal war for revenge.
    It's inspired by their character from the non-HH novels, striking from the shadows. Surprisingly resolute for CSM and utterly utterly spiteful.
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  9. #19

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    I agree on that thats why I left out the basic legion rules about rallying and such. I don't think that any of the Night Lords that were on Terra or crusading through the Eastern Fringe would have lost the basic tenants of how they fought.

  10. #20
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    Hence my changes.
    I figured (having now read Massacre) that talent for murder no longer applied to the much depleted warbands.
    Likewise seeds of dissent and nostramen blood are nicely repped by the fact that they flee, where SM do not.
    From the shadows is then covered by the new bonuses to night fight, depicting their increased reliance on it as a tactic with their losses.
    Finally giving them fear and hatred imperium represents the paradigm shift towards the spite they hold for their enemies and their dread reputation from 10000 years of raiding.

    I really do like the Life Before Honor rule, but the truth is that it undermines the unique mechanic of the CSM army, and I didn't set out to do that.
    Wolfman of the Horsepack of Derailment
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