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  1. #421
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    Quick! They haven't paid their TV licence, lets hobble them!!
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  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfshade View Post
    I still find it hard to fathom that you are ok with the idea of someone who breaks the law being assaulted.
    Assault is an unlawful thing that may not even consist of physical battery/pain. Even if they were flogged as a matter of law, it would not be an assault - being legal like.

    However if people are insufficiently in charge of their own self discipline to avoid breaking the law, a short sharp burst of agonising excruciating pain may do the trick - a bit like electric fences stopping sheep getting out of the field.
    I'M RATHER DEFINATELY SURE FEMALE SPACE MARINES DEFINERTLEY DON'T EXIST.

  3. #423
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    But when someone is knocked off a bike is statstically most likely to be the victim of being hit by a motor vehicle, which is an assault with a deadly weapon. If I were hit by a tonne or more of metal I would feel assaulted.

    And moreover, our justice system is a non-capital punishment system. It certainly would be cheaper if it were mind.
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  4. #424
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    I think Denzarks point is simply that if you are stupid enough to break the law and jump red lights, you deserve whatever happens to you, a sentiment I'm sure we can all agree with.
    Chief Educator of the Horsemen of Derailment "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought, which they avoid." SOREN KIERKEGAARD

  5. #425
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    But even by that measure of "justice" if I was driving a several ton tipper truck and I drive through the red light, I could collide with a vast number of cars and have nothing adverse happen to me, though those unfortunates in the cars would suffer a much different fate.

    Just is is about fairness and equality. Yes people who drive through red lights should be punished by the law, but the outcome should be the same and not dependent on what vehicle you were on when you did so.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfshade View Post
    But even by that measure of "justice" if I was driving a several ton tipper truck and I drive through the red light, I could collide with a vast number of cars and have nothing adverse happen to me, though those unfortunates in the cars would suffer a much different fate.

    Just is is about fairness and equality. Yes people who drive through red lights should be punished by the law, but the outcome should be the same and not dependent on what vehicle you were on when you did so.
    In a perfect world people behaving badly would receive equal punishment but that's not how an overly arbitrary justice system works.

    Cyclists I encounter routinely ignore the rules of the road... Not to mention how poorly they behave on shared walking paths. Another symptom of the ever growing entitlement mentality we seem to be living under at the moment... or the mentality that "everyone can sod off as long as I get what I want."

  7. #427
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    Firstly, shared pathways don't work, the infrastructure is shocking, the constant give ways and seemingly the only onus is on the cyclist to keep on their side but not the pedestrians. Not to mention all the street furniture in the way.

    The speed difference cyclists and pedestrians causes conflicts in the same way that the speed difference between cyclist and cars.

    While you notice these cyclists who flout the rules, how many motorists do you notice? Or is it that it has become so common place that you no longer observe it. Or rather you have a perception bias so you see the cyclists who break the rules and not the ones that don't? That isn't meant as a derogatory statement, we all have a tendency to observe and notice things that fit our world view, like you don't notice many of a make/model of car then you buy one and you see them everywhere.

    It is quite interesting you mention entitlement, since it is my view that the biggest threats to a cyclist livelihood is motorists mentality. You can see such things as a clear cut motorist at fault collision and see the comments made saying how it is the cyclist fault, or somehow they should given way when there wasn't enough time to do so or indeed the responsibility was on the car not to pull out as they didn't have right of way. Or how the thought that paying "road tax" or insurance, that those meaningless bits of paper would make you safer.

    Given that there are over 1 million cars that have been seized for not having insurance, I am pretty confident that it is motorists who break the law more frequently.
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  8. #428
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    I would not be willing to bet that more motorists break the law as I am too fond of my money to give it away! However if I take the ratio of the number of times I've been left cursing and making rude gestures at a motorist/cyclist to the total number of each I meet on the road it may be a toss up. Cyclists in the US are generally screwed as they mostly have to share everything. I gave up riding in favor of mountain hiking as cycling just wasn't worth the risk anymore.

    Not sure if it came off this way but the entitlement comment was meant to be universal, not targeting any specific group... it seems more people feel everything should go there way all the time. Not sure if this is more prevalent in the US or simply people being people.

  9. #429

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    Quote Originally Posted by 40kGamer View Post
    I would not be willing to bet that more motorists break the law as I am too fond of my money to give it away! However if I take the ratio of the number of times I've been left cursing and making rude gestures at a motorist/cyclist to the total number of each I meet on the road it may be a toss up. Cyclists in the US are generally screwed as they mostly have to share everything. I gave up riding in favor of mountain hiking as cycling just wasn't worth the risk anymore.

    Not sure if it came off this way but the entitlement comment was meant to be universal, not targeting any specific group... it seems more people feel everything should go there way all the time. Not sure if this is more prevalent in the US or simply people being people.
    People being people, I'd guess.

  10. #430
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    The only US place I know of with significant infrastructure is New York and that has loads of problems
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