My Country is Officially Stupid

[Bigred]

Ugg. I remember how well these political games went in 1996 and this won't be any different.

When even the architect of the first shutdown Newt Gingrich is saying "don't do it" elected officials should pay attention.

Still, at least the New York rags are having fun with it.

[eldargal]

It is rather breathtaking.

[Rissan4ever]

What's even more breathtaking is that by the time the next major election cycle comes around, people will basically have forgotten about all this, and the turds who caused it will have a decent chance of reelection.

[ElectricPaladin]

It's a conspiracy*! You see, the corporate-military oligarchs know that the US military is too loyal for a coup, so they've got their far right looney minions jamming up the government in the hopes that they can provoke total chaos!

*No it's not.

[Mr Mystery]

Before I break into full on lefty stride, I actually quite like the US system here, as it can prevent a President just spending on whatever.....

But really....social healthcare is something to be feared and abhorred?

Grow up Republican America. Seriously. Yes it's expensive, but it keeps your workforce you know, working. As it prevents people with relatively minor, but debilitating ailments falling by the way side because they either can't find insurance, or can't afford the high premiums their condition brings with it.

No the NHS isn't perfect, but as I've said before, it patches you up and ships you out. And it's saved my life on numerous occasions!

For another example, Mumsie Mystery, who has severe epilepsy, which is controlled through a veritable cocktail of daily medicines. Without these, Mumsie will fit. Easily more than once a day. NHS provides her prescription. And in return, another tax payer is capable of working and contributing.

In the USA?? You tell me. It's likely any private medical insurance would cost a lot, if they'd cover her at all.

So really....social healthcare is immoral and wrong because???

[Nabterayl]

So really....social healthcare is immoral and wrong because???

I like [url=http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/im-safe-on-board-pull-up-the-life-rope]this thought[/url] from the late Roger Ebert on the subject:

It is "socialism." Again, yes. The word socialism, however, has lost its usefulness in this debate. It has been tainted, perhaps forever, by the malevolent Sen. Joseph McCarthy, who succeeded somehow in linking it with the godless Commies. America is the only nation in the free world in which "socialism" is generally thought of in negative terms. The only nation in which that word, in and of itself, is thought to bring the discussion to a close.

[Mr Mystery]

I despair. I really do.

[DarkLink]

But really....social healthcare is something to be feared and abhorred?

Grow up Republican America. Seriously. Yes it's expensive, but it keeps your workforce you know, working.

It's not just republicans. In this case, it's the majority of america who disapproves of obamacare, by a pretty solid margin. It mainly stems from the fact that obama has been very unclear about what it actually does. Most americans dont understand obamacare, and so they don't trust it.

On top of that, most of what i do know about it sounds stupid. Any companies that used to offer healthcare to lower level employees will no longer do so, because the fine they pay is a lot less than the costs they would have to cover. So places like trader joes will just hand their employees $500 to get their own healthcare. But the way the market looks to be set up, you have a lot more money going out in the form of "free" healthcare than you have going in to actually pay for it, so a lot of people are thinking 'wtf, how does this math work out'. Things just dont seem to add up, so people aren't supporting it.

[Aenir]

Im for the shutdown, but not because I don't care for helping other people. I live in Illinois, which seems to me the most corrupt individual state (or near) in the US, and the Federal govt. imo is only slightly behind it. The shutdown helps because it gets fingers out (however temporarily) of people's business and that can only be good. Government is good for keeping other countries out of your face, and should do the same itself with its own people. I mean look at the posts around here in the Oubliette, how many of them are oh, stupid representative voicing an opinion or change to a law that would accomplish absolutely nothing but a hassle? Having less of that can only be a plus. Maybe its due to my youth, or as I mentioned, where I live, but I think there is a bit of anarchist (due to the inefficiency and corruption of govt.) in me that sees govt. shutdown as only good.


In short, government messes crap up, less government should equal less screw ups.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

DarkLink, not to be This Guy, but you are constantly claiming "majorities" and "mosts" for things without any evidence. If you're going to make these claims, you need to have numbers, dude. Evidence.

Now, the Affordable Care Act is pretty bad. It's as bloated as hell, it's little more than a cash handout to the insurance industry, and doesn't do very much to address the serious problems in American healthcare. US healthcare is a mess run by an insurance cartel and rampant think-of-a-number pricing; it's a racket, not a market. You could go a long way with a healthcare reform which made US healthcare actually obey some kind of market pressures. It currently doesn't, which is why it's hilarious that the ACA is being derided as "socialist", it's nothing of the sort. But however you do it, you need a reform; this isn't that, not even remotely. So it's true that it's murky and nobody is sure exactly how it works. Basically it doesn't work! I'm not sure it's worth supporting EXCEPT as a necessary foot in the door for something better down the road.

Let's also not forget that the Administration has already caved and holed its own legislation below the waterline by putting back the fines for businesses which aren't providing healthcare to 2015. The fines for private individuals are coming in as planned, of course. Because you just don't count if you're just an ordinary person in our glorious modern world.

Now, as awful as this piece of legislation is: the House passed it, the Senate passed it, the Executive signed it in, the Supreme Court upheld it. That's how the system works. This constant run of 40 attempts to defund it - tilting at windmills - and now holding the government hostage is just childishness. Ted Cruz is sat in the aisle of the supermarket, screaming his head off because momma won't do what he wants, and he's gonna scream and scream and scream. It's probably going to come back and bite them in the *****. Ask Newt!

The wider systemic problem with the US federal government at the moment is that it's predicated on a state of permanent crisis for partisan political ends. Both parties are involved in this. Y'all remember the Sequester, right? I forget which one of the six-monthly crises was before this.