My Country is Officially Stupid

[Aenir]

Obama did win reelection, and from that, it can be inferred that the people who voted for him (myself included) are in favor of his policies. I don't see how that's flawed.

However, the election was pretty close, as I recall. In my view, that means the country is split down the middle, more or less. That's why issues like gay marriage, immigration reform, and healthcare reform are so hot. If things were clearly one way or the other, there wouldn't be so much controversy.

Also keep in mind only 57.5 percent of people voted last election... so he won a majority (barely) of the 42.5 % of people who voted.

As far as the other people who may be hurt (well not to them, but to the programs) Why is the federal government running those things anyway? It is so wasteful, Shouldn't it fall down to the local people to take care of local problems? I had more that I was going to type, but I seem to have forgotten it... if I remember, I will post again

[Wolfshade]

It's not - socialism is a dirty word in the UK. I appreciate universal healthcare - but I would make people work for their welfare. Am I a socialist? Think not. What is that Thatcher quote - 'The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money to spend'.

"Red" Ed is bringing it back. But it is important to note that both parties (Democrats and Republicans) are both members of conservative international. There is no "left" in american politics.
I also recall someone once linked a study that suggested that the average insurance cost would actually decrease with a national health service.

This latest round of brinksmanship is interesting, neither side are willing to back down. Either one sure that the other will back down and willing to risk voter alienation to do this.

The BBC did rather unhelpfully point out that Syria despite a massive civil war still continues a governemnt and government employees are still paid on time.

[DarkLink]

Polls rarely show the whole picture though. Of that 52% you quoted, 7% of the people dislike the AHA because it doesn't go far enough to improve healthcare access for all (i.e. the proponents of a single payer system). Additionally, another poll indicated that if you asked "Do you approve of Obamacare" 46% of the respondents responded negatively (older poll than the one you are quoting). However if asked "Do you approve of the Affordable Healthcare Act?" only 36% of the people polled responded negatively.

Polls usually give only enough information to support whoever is giving the poll and the questions that are asked are usually biased enough to poison the well. So saying that the "majority" of Americans disapprove of the Affordable Healthcare Act based on a single poll is a bit misleading.

I'm not saying the healthcare is perfect... it could likely use some work to make it less confusing and less burdensome to navigate, especially for businesses. However, it's better than the alternative in my opinion (which was nothing).

[url]http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/01/healthcare-obamacare-affordable-care-act[/url]

My point is, though, that it's not just a handful of stubborn republicans. For various reasons, many of which amount to 'we dont understand it', a lot of people don't like it. And that number has grown quite a bit in the last year or two. Take that for what you will.

[DarkLink]

Obama did win reelection, and from that, it can be inferred that the people who voted for him (myself included) are in favor of his policies. I don't see how that's flawed.

However, the election was pretty close, as I recall. In my view, that means the country is split down the middle, more or less. That's why issues like gay marriage, immigration reform, and healthcare reform are so hot. If things were clearly one way or the other, there wouldn't be so much controversy.

Correlation, especially one as weak as that, does not imply causation. For all you know, Obama was reelected for his foreign policy and charming good looks, in spite of his healthcare plans. You. Don't. Know.

Since you don't know, if you want to know, you have to look at specific data. A couple years ago, i think it was pretty 50/50, now a majority oppose for one reason or another. Given that, it should be pretty obvious that the aforementioned assumption is flawed.

[Cap'nSmurfs]

There is no "left" in american politics.

There's barely any left in mainstream politics anywhere you look in the West. No, not Labour. No.

[daboarder]

I like [url=http://www.rogerebert.com/rogers-journal/im-safe-on-board-pull-up-the-life-rope]this thought[/url] from the late Roger Ebert on the subject:

It is "socialism." Again, yes. The word socialism, however, has lost its usefulness in this debate. It has been tainted, perhaps forever, by the malevolent Sen. Joseph McCarthy, who succeeded somehow in linking it with the godless Commies. America is the only nation in the free world in which "socialism" is generally thought of in negative terms. The only nation in which that word, in and of itself, is thought to bring the discussion to a close.

Well said nab,

Another good example, oppehmiemer, In Britain they would have given him a medal, in america they crucified him.

You know I was waiting for this thread to start, me being a rather vocal in my politics, but I just can't seem to bring my self to bother pointing out all the stupid the actions of american republicans.

Suffice to say, access to healthcare is one of the major things that determines the health of a society.

Furthermore, Cuba! as better health care than the US. (though to be fair they have better health care than most places)

[DarkLink]

So I just found this: [URL]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/[/URL]

Literally the first relatively non-partisan, broken down explanation with some references that I've came across. I could probably find all that information if I looked, but I haven't stumbled across it until now.

Kind of backs up my point that most people don't understand what obamacare is and don't want to risk it. I'm still questionable on some provisions, but I certainly don't think it's worth shutting down the government over it.


Edit:
Also

[Nabterayl]

So I just found this: [URL]http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/09/30/five-reasons-americans-already-love-obamacare-plus-one-reason-why-theyre-gonna/[/URL]

Literally the first relatively non-partisan, broken down explanation with some references that I've came across. I could probably find all that information if I looked, but I haven't stumbled across it until now.

Those are all the reasons I am in favor of the ACA, and kind of disgusted with my party's representatives for opposing it so vociferously.

[DarkLink]

It's definitely partisan politics. BTW, this is awesome: [URL]http://www.collegehumor.com/article/6889842/if-congress-got-stuff-done-like-roommates[/URL]

I love how everyone is borderline illiterate and a bunch of petty squabblers, then Paul Ryan comes along with "I have a comprehensive organizational plan to get us back on track, which I have attached in PDF form. Have a happy Monday, Ryan." And everyone just ignores him.

[Nabterayl]

That was pretty epic.