Terminator Heavy Flamer?

[Terminator]

I'm running a 5 man Terminator squad with Lysander, to deep strike or walk upfield. Is there any sense in equipping a heavy flamer? Cyclone and AC both seem expensive, and the heavy flamer seems like it would be useful for overwatch, occupied buildings and hordes, which Terminators really can get weighed down by. Thoughts?

[ElectricPaladin]

I am of two minds about this topic, myself.

On the one hand, it is very easy to get Strength 4 and 5 shooting in a Space Marine list. Heck, in any list. A flamer is really just a big teardrop-shaped template of Strength 5. Compared to 8/3 missiles and 6/4 with the possibility of Rending, it's kind of lackluster.

On the other hand, I agree that a 5/4 Wall of Death in Overwatch isn't something to be sneezed at. Furthermore, the ability of a flame template to ignore cover is great on a platform that can Deep Strike. Put it next to something with a cover save that positively must die - like an enemy HQ hiding out, or something with nasty long-range shooting - and you can put a dent in it, not to mention threatening it with a charge next turn. Flamers and Deep Strike are a natural combination - two great tastes that taste great together.

I think that the answer to the question really lies in the rest of your list. Do you need higher Strength shooting? You want an assault cannon or cyclonic missile launcher. Are you good for penetrating shooting and want more of a utility unit to Deep Strike aggressively and take out enemy units in cover? Go for the flamer.

I'd say that in either case, it's worth it to own a couple of terminators with flamers. You never know when you're going to want to play Cities of Death or something.

[Katharon]

Cyclone ML has always been well worth its points, because it doesn't stop the Terminator walking with it from also using his stormbolter. I've not much faith in flamers except in squads where you can take more than one -- just to assure getting a lot of wounds. At least with the assault cannon, you can ensure killing just about anything.

[Urza8188]

IMO the heavy flamer is only usefull coming out of a land raider or SR. DSing terminators less than 8 inches from a unit is circumstantial and high cost. (id proabbly want to run mine after a DS anyway) The long range options seem like a much better choice if you're foot sloggin em.

[Tynskel]

IMO the heavy flamer is only usefull coming out of a land raider or SR. DSing terminators less than 8 inches from a unit is circumstantial and high cost. (id proabbly want to run mine after a DS anyway) The long range options seem like a much better choice if you're foot sloggin em.

That's why I use locators and teleport beacons.

[Da Gargoyle]

I rather think heavy flamers are under rated. I also wondered at the fact that an assault terminator squad could not take one, at least with original vanilla marines. Having said that the biggest advantage of DS is getting behind vehicles, where most have armour 10. So AC and storm bolters seems the best option for DS as the AC can take out most vehicles from the rear but still provide additional anti personnel fire.

Like Urzer... said though. If you are coming out of a LR you are there to hammer infantry and the flamer gets the nod, no cover, and followup assault.

[plawolf]

Problem with the LR or SR delivery option is that if you were to do that, you would want to be using hammernators rather than shooty ones.

If you want to napalm something, assault marines are a few better and cheaper means to do so.

They can take more than one flamer, have built-in grenades so can charge into cover and finish off what the framers don't kill next turn with no penalty, and are far more mobile so you can realistically expect they to be able to use their flamers more than once per game.

The heavy flamer is a good weapon, but it's not really that great on terminators, who need to be a general purpose unit able to deal with most targets to justify their cost. The heavy weapons option is really the only way a termie unit can be multirole so unless you are tailoring your list, you really cannot afford to limit the effectiveness of your termies to being only good against infantry by wasting that precious slot on a HF.

[DWest]

If you want to napalm something, assault marines are a few better and cheaper means to do so.

Alternately, there is the humble Land Speeder; Heavy Flamer on top and a second underslung. Costs the same as 1.5 Terminators and has a smaller DS footprint, leading to fewer mishaps, and you can fire both burners off the DS, move 12" next turn and fire both again.

[Urza8188]

That's why I use locators and teleport beacons.

Thats why i said "situational" and not risky. in order to utilize beacons you are relying on the beacons to still be alive and in range of the target come turn....2?3?4??? who knows! That is why it is a "situational" option.

Problem with the LR or SR delivery option is that if you were to do that, you would want to be using hammernators rather than shooty ones.

If you want to napalm something, assault marines are a few better and cheaper means to do so.

They can take more than one flamer, have built-in grenades so can charge into cover and finish off what the framers don't kill next turn with no penalty, and are far more mobile so you can realistically expect they to be able to use their flamers more than once per game.

The heavy flamer is a good weapon, but it's not really that great on terminators, who need to be a general purpose unit able to deal with most targets to justify their cost. The heavy weapons option is really the only way a termie unit can be multirole so unless you are tailoring your list, you really cannot afford to limit the effectiveness of your termies to being only good against infantry by wasting that precious slot on a HF.

I disagree with the thought that you would definitely want hammernators over regular with a heavy flamer in a transport. it depends on what army you're fighting and what kind of list you are running as well. The heavy flamer with a durable base poses an ongoing high damage threat down to the last man if you position him right and powerfists do almost as much damage at a TH anyway. The SS adds a lot of durability but costs a few more points and can be ignored by big blobs of troops becasue they can't sweep.

I do agree that there are more cost efficient platforms for a heavy flamer certainly but I cant think of any more durable than 5 2+5++ATSKNF inside an av14(potentially with more deadly flamers) or an AV12 flier immune to melta. Vs a lot of lists i could see this choice being a great firepower magnet that must be dealt with before turn 2 or 3.

[Tynskel]

I have used the Heavy Flamer on terminators for years. It is effective, and inexpensive. Works well with an army that is going to be in CC.