Please please please don't deconstruct the emperor!

[Katharon]

I disagree on this - I mean if HH were standalone and not tied to a final outcome for the major players you could have much more dramatic storytelling. For instance Peturabo, upon seeing Fulgrim's ascension, could have turned away from the heresy and attempted to go back to the Imperial fold. Would his Legion follow him? Would the Primarchs accept him? Sanguinius and Guilliman might, but I doubt Dorn ever would. Things like that could happen if it were simply a singular tale that can't happen as we know what choice he makes and where it leads him and his Legion.

That's the thing though: we always knew the ending. Horus rebels. Horus fights the Emperor. Horus dies. The Emperor is interned upon the Golden Throne. The Legions of Chaos retreat to the Eye of Terror. Guilliman rebuilds the Imperium and forever alters the Legiones Astartes into the Codex Astartes.

A stand alone book could hardly devote the page space to go into such detail as was displayed in "Angel Exterminatus," since the ascension of Fulgrim into a Daemon-Primarch would have only been a short part amongst the almost dozen of similar stories -- some more important to the central story (illustrated above) than others. "What If" scenarios like the one you are describing in detail wouldn't be possible without the fleshed out mass of books we've received thus far in the HH series.

So, you're kind of arguing my point for me by such conjecture.

[Gotthammer]

Do you mean a singular standalone book? Because then I agree with you it would be impossible, but I was meaning a standalone series which, no, does not support your point.

[Katharon]

Do you mean a singular standalone book? Because then I agree with you it would be impossible, but I was meaning a standalone series which, no, does not support your point.

The HH series *is* a series and not a stand-alone...the hell you two smoking and can I have some?

[Wolfshead]

Dude.

It's pretty obv.

Emperor is not the Emperor. He's just another Primarch type thing, but is to a Primarch what a Primarch is to a Marine.

Real power behind the throne is the Sigilite. And he continues to be up to something.....

There's a part of me that would love this to be the case. That the biggest lie of them all isn't that Chaos exists and wants to eat your soul, but that the big guy in golden armour is nothing more than a psychic projection or a genetic construct, used as an obvious figurehead for humanity to unite behind so Malcador can pull the strings and found the Imperium from the relative safety of his place behind his own throne.

It does make some kind of sense on the one hand, as the background does talk about the Emperor guiding humanity from behind the scenes of many, if not all, of humanities greatest events and civilisations, so if it turns out that Malcador is the "true" Emperor and the being that is front and centre and answers to the "title" is just his tool, then it isn't going to be entirely out of left field and going against what went before. Of course, very few people, if anyone, can find out about it so that the Big Guy can get all the credit.

I suspect there are some details in the Heresy series that would make this a non-starting theory, especially since I haven't read everything (only the main novels up to Betrayer) so I'm probably missing something. I still think it's interesting, though, even for a "what if?" scenario.

[YorkNecromancer]

They're going to deconstruct him till they're is nothing left of the myth or mystery.

Wait: we're going to be shocked that The Emperor isn't actually a god? Just a fairly horrible fascist dictator with better science?

How is that something we don't already know?

(I've just realised: dictator + psychic powers + mad science + plan to rule the galaxy =

)

[Nabterayl]

Wait: we're going to be shocked that The Emperor isn't actually a god? Just a fairly horrible fascist dictator with better science?

How is that something we don't already know?

Seriously. Had everything gone according to plan in the Emperor's vision, the galaxy would be a rationalist dystopia ruled by a megalomaniacal mass murderer, built on the bones of countless dead. He was not a nice man. He was ... I guess as admirable as Alexander. He (either he) can be admired as a visionary, as a charismatic leader, and as a personally fearsome warrior, but he should also be reviled as a megalomaniac, an inveterate conquistador, and a perpetrator of crimes against humanity on a scale previously undreamt.

I mean ... I guess I wouldn't want him deconstructed more than that. I wouldn't want to find out that in fact the Emperor was not a visionary, nor charismatic, nor a personally fearsome warrior, but was still a great villain. But we don't need the Horus Heresy novels to tell us he was a great villain.

[YorkNecromancer]

Had everything gone according to plan in the Emperor's vision, the galaxy would be a rationalist dystopia ruled by a megalomaniacal mass murderer, built on the bones of countless dead.

This so much. Like, I seriously don't understand how anyone can possibly see the Imperium as anything but a horrific evil, no matter the era. Yeah, the neo-feudal societies that *generally* existed before the crusades may have been bad, but the Orwellian nightmare of the Imperium is somehow an improvement?! It's like trying avoid jellyfish when you go boating by climbing into a live Great White shark.

These are the good guys?! No. Just because they say they are, doesn't mean it's true. Every villain thinks he's a hero; every political monster justifies atrocity in the name of "protecting the children". Those guys who talk about "the greater good" (be they the Emperor, the Tau or Gellert Grindelwald) - those guys are Not To Be Trusted.

I've said it before Chaos vs the Imperium = Satanists vs Fascists. The outcome doesn't really matter - humanity loses no matter what. Great fun, but anyone who thinks the Imperium are the good guys is nuts.

[BrianDavion]

I'm gonna argue with those whom call the Emperor a Meglomaniac.

Meglomania is described as dellusions of power, relevance and omnipoteance. is it really meglomania if you really ARE the most powerful human (indeed quite possiably mortal) in the galaxy?

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

Um i don't envision the emperor nor do i invision the great crusade as mass genocide nor do i look at his plan as being a bad thing am i crazy? no the emperor saw what chaos was and was ready to defeat chaos as well as protecting humanity from vile alien scum. thats the central idea behind 40k.... had the emperor been able to complete his goal then humanity would have been set. chaos would not be what it is the orks and other xenos races would be crushed under the boots of humanity. the heresy is that tragic event that dashes the emperors dreams and plans. that is the central storyline.... humanity would be alive and well under his rule. inmstead its broken down into a nightmare this was and is not the emperors imperium it is a twisted version a version built by corrupt men and opressive control of the high lords of tera. I know i do not view my space marines as evil nor are my imperial guard a bunch of genocidal lunatics... the tau are a bunch of subjugating commies you have chaos who wants to kill all orks who are certianly evil nids are evil then you have eldar who are just as evil because they will do what ever they need to do in order to survive. yes they are portrayed as the good guys because they help the imperium when it suits them and yet they are just as likely to stab them in the back when it suits them as well. sure space marines kill whole worlds that rebel. you would do the same thing to keep territory... the romans did it... do we call them a bunch of genocidal evil megolomaniacs? for me the emperor is julius cesar he did what he had to do.

[The Last Lamenter]

Hear me! We've heard of Danish heroes,

ancient kings and the glory they cut

for themselves, swinging mighty swords!


How Shild made slaves of soldiers from every

land, crowds of captives he'd beaten 5

into terror; he'd travelled to Denmark alone,

an abandoned child, but changed his own fate,

lived to be rich and much honored. He ruled

lands on all sides: wherever the sea

would take them his soldiers sailed, returned 10

with tribute and obedience. There was a brave

King! And he gave them more than his glory,

conceived a son for the Danes, a new leader

allowed them by the grace of the God. They had lived,

before his coming, kingless and miserable; 15

now the Lord of all life, Ruler

of glory, blessed them with a prince, Beo,

whose power and fame soon spread through the world.

Shild's strong son was the glory of Denmark;

his father's warriors were wound round his heart 20

with golden rings, bound to their prince

by his father's treasure.

This is a king! He is the epitome of pre-Arthurian, Anglo-Saxon Gut Kenning. And when he dies, it's like when Beowulf dies, when Theodin falls at Pelinor Fields, when Caesar is killed, when king David dies, but now we can't celebrate him, we have to deconstruct him, subject him to our watered-down, post-Christian, slave morality, and talk about his cruel imperialism and lack of interest in social justice. God forbid we should, "for God's sake, sit upon the ground and tell sad stories of the death of kings," because as Miller says, "who weeps for these, weeps for corruption."