Forgeworld rules and tournament legality

[Maelstorm]

I haven't even bothered with the rest of the thread, I just came in to say;
I agree with DarkLink 100%.

Yeah, what he said!

[AnEnemy]

War Walkers and Warp Spiders are broken? Really? Huh...if you say so.

People regularly refuse to play my 30k Space Wolves. I expect it'll always be that way. Whether it's right or not...people without Forgeworld will often times refuse to play against Forgeworld. There's still a pay to win stigma out there despite the fact that the entire game is pay to win.

It makes no sense when you look at my list and see that it's predominately Tactical marines and Devastators...nothing new or complex about that...but that just doesn't matter. Their eyes immediately go for the more outlandish stuff like my the jetbike command squad.

Fear of the unknown.

[DarkLink]

What's broken and what's really good is a very arbitrary distinction. Most of the forgeworld units that are lauded as broken are really just good, not game breaking.

[rxcky]

It always makes me smile when this topic comes up, GW must be the only company in the world who make a big deal about one of their ranges of products, and then deny the players their use in tournaments. "Come here good people and buy these amazing, shiney new models that Forge World have produced, they are some of the most fantastic miniatures that you can get anywhere in the world!!, what's that? you want to use them in an official Games Workshop Tournament? Oh no no, you can't do that!" It truley boggles the mind!!

Where I come from we all use FW in some shape or form in most games, why? because the models are cool and we like them. Yes there are some things that they do that on paper appear to be overpowered, the R'Varna being one of them, but there are plenty of GW codex related models and units that have already been mentioned that can also be argued to be overpowered. Bottom line to argue that you can't use it, especially after the premium you pay to buy them is ludicrous! They are a product produced by an arm of the same company, they are from the same game system, they have rules within said game system, they are not for want of a better word un-killable. For many I have to agree it seems to be a fear of the unknown, people don't know what it does or how it works and are not expecting or prepared to fight it, that being said there is no reason why you should not be allowed to use it if A) it has the 40K stamp of approval, and B) you have the relevant Imperial Armour or Updated Download from the FW site so your opponent can see what he's up against.

You don't see FW in stores because it costs a lot more to produce and keep stock of resin models than it does Plastic, hence why very little finecast is actually kept in store any more. All GW stores carry the core plastic kits and models and a select few of the better selling Finecast bits, the rest you are encouraged by your local store munchkin to order from their computer and have delivered to the store. This is not a problem as it can usually get there pretty quickly. Putting FW in stores is not likely to happen, it's just too expensive, FW is a much smaller group of guys than you would think and because of this it makes this part of GW very profitable, if they were to ramp up production to fill stores it would mean a huge expenditure of cash to make sure they had enough for retail, which in turn would mean they would need to see a big increase in sales, which then takes away from the bread and butter that is 40K and Fantasy.

End of the day they do the other stuff that GW doesn't have time to or they make things like the super heavies or bigger kits that just aren't worth producing in Plastic (yet). No one can deny the quality that comes out of FW, their percentage of amazing to below average miniatures, in my opinion, is far higher towards the kick *** end of the scale and I will continue to buy them and play with them regardless of what happens. Would I like GW to come out and say "Yes you can use FW in tournaments" Of course I would, but I can't ever see it happening, I love GW models and will always buy them but things like this just make no sense to me and why folks just can't all get along about this simply irks me.

[Popsical]

Hear, hear! Well said that man.

[Clockwork]

Official... Not official... It makes no difference.

Until the FW products can readily be purchased side by side with the rest of GW's products everywhere it will never truly gain unconditional acceptance.

You can do that at Warhammer World. And with so much direct only anymore (Wave Serpent, Sisters, ect), is it really that hard to consider ordering FW online anymore?

[oni]

You can do that at Warhammer World. And with so much direct only anymore (Wave Serpent, Sisters, ect), is it really that hard to consider ordering FW online anymore?

My post is quite vague I admit. It's not necessarily an issue of accessibility. It's more so a community adopted disapprobation; discrimination so to speak, due to, in my opinion, the simple fact that the Forge World products are not for purchase on the same store shelf next to the core game products or even on the same website. This simple matter creates a subconscious idea that because they do not share the same retail or online space that they are somehow not meant to be treated as or accepted as equals to one another. Think about this for a moment and how it relates to say... Car brands and dealerships. How many dealerships do you see selling Toyota's alongside Lexus? - It's the same company, but two very different brands and kept separate from one another as to maintain the image of Lexus being the more prestigious brand.

What needs to happen on a more fundamental level is what the name "Forge World" means and how it's represented. Currently its not uniformly seen as just a brand name sold under the umbrella of a larger company. Right now Forge World is generally viewed as a separate. It produces models separately from GW and sells its models separately from GW. This degree of separation drives a proverbial 'wedge' between the the two reinforcing the idea that they are somehow meant to be separate and unequal.

So back to my original post - Change the sales dynamic to change the perception of separation and ultimately the perception of the buyers / community.

[Morgrim]

And with so much direct only anymore (Wave Serpent, Sisters, ect), is it really that hard to consider ordering FW online anymore?

If you're not living in the UK, definitely. Even the 'direct order only' GW stuff can be ordered and paid for in the local GW store and they will ship it to the store for you for free. Sure, it's not on the shelves, but it still feels like part of the range. Whereas if you want Forgeworld stuff you have to pay a full 15% shipping and wait at least month for it to arrive and possibly spend even more time running around chasing customs. It doesn't feel like the same company, it feels like a different company that just has permission to play in the same universe, which probably contributes to people saying it isn't 'official'.

[steelmage99]

Some very interesting points raised by ADB on faeit's blog, where he states categorically that GW have repeatedly stated FW is now legal and that the nay sayers arguements about FW not being GW are totally inaccurate.

Thats nice.

The obvious question would be; "Where have GW repeatedly stated that?"

And I have to ask; why should I care at all what a BL writer has to say about the relationship between Imperial Armour and Warhammer 40K?

[steelmage99]

Right, if anyone tells you that forgeworld is not official, then according to GW, you can officially call them stupid.

According to GW where? Can you provide a quote or a link?