Stat bonuses vs. Characteristic tests

[entendre_entendre]

Quick query: Do models with bonuses to Characteristics use those values for Characteristic tests?
Example 1: a Striking Scorpion Exarch is hit with the Monolith's Door aka Portal of Exile. Does he need to roll 3 & under or 4 & under?
Example 2: A unit of Nurgle-marked CSM getting effected by the Black Mace's ability: Cursed. Would you roll against their T5 or T4?
The Rule for Crushing Blow is this:

This model has +1 Strength - p30, Eldar codex

Mark of Nurgle:

Models with the Mark of Nurgle have +1 Toughness. - p30 CSM codex

I've taken this to mean that you change your profile by 1 (3-->4/4-->5). It is generally accepted that MoN makes you flat T5, and both rules use the same language, so I don't see why you wouldn't apply this logic to both values. I also think this because otherwise you would have a bracket values, S3(4) & T4(5) respectively, which don't exist in 6th ed books anymore. Besides, if you have multiple values for a stat, you take the highest value for tests anyways (p7, MRB). It's not like it's +1S to attacks or +1T against wounds, it just adds +1 to your stat of choice, so is 'on' all the time, i.e. it's non-conditional.

The rule for Characteristic tests:

Roll a D6 and compare the result to the relevant characteristic in the model's profile, if the result is equal or less than the number of the profile, the test is passed. If the result is greater than the number in the model's profile, the test has been failed..." - p7 MRB

The first point is the stickler. Do you look at the profile with or without the bonus? If without, why?

[chicop76]

That is a good question I would say it should be base profile, since you can argue that terminators with power fist will be strength 8 instead of 4.

[daboarder]

not quite, the powerfist strikes at 2x the users strength it doesn't modify the users strength.

Its in the rules, all modifiers change the base stat, the only exception is vector strike.

[Lord Krungharr]

I think if the effect is implemented via wargear and not specified to occur in a specific phase/circumstance, then the statline change is permanent and unalterable for the game. Another example would be a dude on a jetbike (like a Herald of Tzeentch), normally T3, but Jetbikes/Bikes grant +1 T, and there's none of that parantheses crap anymore like T4(5).

But would that be true for non-wargear effects? Like if a unit becomes Enfeebled, would they then be rolling Toughness tests against -1 T?

[Nabterayl]

I think the only thing you need to worry about is what the conditions are for the bonus to be in effect. A power fist, for instance, never purports to do anything but improve Strength for the purposes of calculating the target number for a To-Wound roll when making an attack with the power fist. Unless you're called upon to take a characteristic test at that moment, the power fist's bonus is irrelevant. Something like Mark of Nurgle, a bike, or Crushing Blow simply improves a characteristic all the time, so any time you are called upon to take a characteristic test those bonuses must be taken into account.

[Sly]

Weapons only modify characteristics for the purpose of making an attack with that weapon. So any modifiers to stats from weapons would not affect stat checks. Other modifiers, unless they are given as situational or temporary, would generally apply for all phases of the game and for all actions, and thus would be used for characteristic checks.

[Weidekuh]

So since it's permanent (like in his characteristic sheet) would a Scorpion Exarch with Crushing Blow and Scorpions Claw be strength 7 or 8? Since it increases his statline permanently he is counted as base strength 4 -> 4x2 = 8. But in the BRB it says multiplication before addition, so 3x2+1=7.

[daboarder]

So since it's permanent (like in his characteristic sheet) would a Scorpion Exarch with Crushing Blow and Scorpions Claw be strength 7 or 8? Since it increases his statline permanently he is counted as base strength 4 -> 4x2 = 8. But in the BRB it says multiplication before addition, so 3x2+1=7.

No because the BRB says so!

[SacredChao]

So we have a few different rule interactions going on here. The first is Crushing Blow. This is an upgrade that gives the exarch model a flat +1 strength at all times. So according to BRB/FAQ, a flat bonus all the time (such as Mark of Nurgle or being on a bike) is the same as modifying the stat line to be one higher. So the Exarch is strength 4 base.

Now, this should mean that the Scorpion's Claw should be Str 8 (4x2) since the Exarch is always str 4 no matter what, whether or not he's in combat.