Titans

[Katharon]

Need a rules clarification. I have an upcoming Apoc game and I plan to take a Warhound Titan with two Double-Barreled Turbo-laser Destructors for its arms. One of my opponents is complaining that that shouldn't be legal, that you can't take two of the same weapon type.

The book says "two of the following arm weapons" but does not say anything about disallowing two of the same weapon. Thoughts?

[Gotthammer]

Your assessment is correct.

IMO the twin double turbolaser Warhound has the best cost to murderousness rating of any strD platform, so he may be basing it on not wanting to die horrifically to it.

[Katharon]

IMO the twin double turbolaser Warhound has the best cost to murderousness rating of any strD platform, so he may be basing it on not wanting to die horrifically to it.

So I am led to believe. And yeah, thats why I am taking those two weapons. >

[david5th]

Is legal, i have one myself. Is terrifyingly good with those 2 x 2 Str D large blast shots.

[Archon Charybdis]

Legal, but it might lose you some friends considering where almost every other super-heavy, especially with D weapons went up in points significantly *coughRevenantcough*, the Warhound inexplicably went down.

[dirkspair]

well, you asked for thoughts, here are mine. it may be legal to put those weapons on there but it sounds like power gaming to me, something that does not really have a place in apoc. it is about getting together with your mates having a good time and have cool stuff happening. once opponents are not having a good time because they are removing models with a dust pan and a brush and considering that now the weapons cannot be harmed until the whole titan is kaputt IMO the game is already a loss.

but that is just me, i am sure some people play it to pwn the enemy and little else, so if the whole group has that mindset, all is good.

[Katharon]

well, you asked for thoughts, here are mine. it may be legal to put those weapons on there but it sounds like power gaming to me, something that does not really have a place in apoc. it is about getting together with your mates having a good time and have cool stuff happening. once opponents are not having a good time because they are removing models with a dust pan and a brush and considering that now the weapons cannot be harmed until the whole titan is kaputt IMO the game is already a loss.

but that is just me, i am sure some people play it to pwn the enemy and little else, so if the whole group has that mindset, all is good.

Well, considering that if anyone goes into an Apoc game with the expectation of winning or their models surviving -- you're playing the wrong game. The last Apoc game I was in, I fielded two Emperor's Fist Tank Companies and a Warhound Titan armed with a Vulcan Cannon and a Plasma Blaster. Within two turns, I'd lost one entire tank company and a 3rd of the second company. My Warhound had lost half its hull points and was only barely managing to do OK thanks to lucky void-shield reboot rolls. By the end of that game I'd lost both tank companies, but my Titan survived with 2 Hull Points left, and my Titan helped to finish off an enemy Warlord Titan with a lucky penetration and roll of "6" on the damage chart.

We lost the game, but I had a ton of fun and had no problem losing twenty tanks. It's expected. It's Apoc.

So I guess the mindset is different between you and I dirkspair? I understand what you're trying to say and in a normal game of WH40K where someone is using a deathstar unit or other janky shtuff, then yeah, I'd probably call it power gaming. But with Apoc, *everything* is power gaming or using the strongest units you have -- so it kind of levels the playing field again in a way.

[Lord Krungharr]

I do think Strength D is a bit ridiculous in just-having-fun games. but it can sure make Apoc games go at a reasonable speed. That's why I favor house rules for Strength D, unless it's a more competitive environment (which I don't think Apoc is really for). I recommend Strength 10/AP1/Fleshbane/Armorbane/Reroll successful saves/Instant Death. Still super nasty but not absurd, still easily causing massive vehicle damage and D3 wounds on Gargantuans.

I have often pondered the issue of taking 2 of the same weapon when the rules say 'choose two of the following'. If you choose 2 of the same weapon, you are not choosing 2 of the following, you are choosing 1 of the following.
And the plasma blastgun is pretty awesome too, and EXTREMELY useful against a tide of Orks on the march! Good to mix it up a bit I think.

Also it is very important for enemies of Titans to know that once engaged in combat, superheavy walkers will be LOCKED until something is dead/destroyed/or falling back. That was a super huge change to Apocalypse. So swarm those Titans! Or just shoot them from the air