Allied forces etiquette?

[Arkhan Land]

Im for the wackiest of alliances so long as you make an effort to make the following work: Fluff, Models/Representation, Deployment
the deployment part refers to how you actually organize your allies. Just because your Orks and Rines are allies doesnt mean they should setup close to each other and hold hands. I accept that sometimes in a war between several races in pitched battles warlords often accept the mose dire of alliances but they should still be represented as two separate forces engaging against the same opponent.With the exception of course with imperium allies I see most other alliances about two forces arriving on the battlefield seperately and striving for the same outcome, not necessarily bonding together cohesively.

[Anggul]

I think the issue is that allies are used for power gaming silliness far more than they're used for fluffy coolness.

Imperials allying with Imperials, that's pretty much always cool. Chaos and Chaos. Also good. Eldar and Imperial/Tau, yeah, the Eldar are known for turning up and helping others with something because further down the line it benefits them (or in the case of Biel-Tan, the very obvious fact that they don't want Orks messing up the place).

Necrons... I can't really see any allies seeming right with them. Allies of Desperation is fine, but they have far too many Allies of Convenience. They'll ally at a push (a really, really big push) but they really aren't the friendliest of sorts even in the context of 40k. Also they just don't look right next to most other armies. Something about the Necron aesthetic just doesn't gel with other forces, every allied Necrons/whatever army I've seen just looks really out of place and silly in my opinion. They really don't look right next to Orks, that's for sure.

Allies of desperation needs to be more widespread. It means the armies have to work together but still keep their distance from one another, which is exactly what they would do in the backstory.

[Sizzly]

I have to say that I love the allies rule set. Granted, they bite me in the behind when I'm playing with my Dark Eldar (and have to add CSM to make the points) but I totally endorse the concept. I know it's used for power gaming and all that but it allows for some really slick combinations. I mean, without it I couldn't field traitor guard with my CSM army. Without it, my daemons would be kinda flat. I love the rules and whilst I'm not in agreement with all of the pairings (really! Dark Eldar are desperate allies with CSM?!?!? So unfair) I think it's a superb addition to the game. Especially with all the supplements they're releasing.

I say more!

[daboarder]

the allies chart would work much better with a couple of changes.

asymmetry: this would add another layer of interest, for example I can easily see a chaos warband employing dark eldar raiders as mercenaries (convenience) but its hard to imagine dark eldar relying on chaos (desperate)

and the other change would be to make it fairish for everyone.

At the moment the entire chart basically gives the imperium a huge advantage in that they are pretty much BB with half or more of the books and definitely shouldn't be with some of them (BA and cron should be Con at best)

Chaos should have some true battle brothers instead of the glorified convenience allies.

[Ursa]

Chaos by its very nature makes allies very difficult.
As a player I have to say I'm pretty ambivilant about allies. I hate the power gamers but like the fluffers. I personnally got Tau allies for my Marines and even fluffed up my chapters fluff just to incorporate them.
Now as a painter / modeller i love allies! Before the allied rules I didn't buy Tau or Eldar because I didn't want an entire army. I wanted a wraith knight. Just wanted to put together and paint a wraith knight or Riptide. Now they are useful for a game and not just collecting dust.

[Charistoph]

Going to the original question. I think if someone were to use allies, but wanted to take the time and effort to convert and paint these allies in the same theme as the rest of their army. More power to them. I'd love to see a Dark Angels version of Centurions. Especially if they were painted like Deathwing or had robes, or what ever. If it's a unique conversion but I can still tell what it is then who cares. Its far better to see cool painted stuff, then dodgy grey plastic and if it's done a bit differently. Even better.

Sadly, Centurions wouldn't be in the Deathwing, nor would they be wearing the robes of the Inner Circle (at least, none but the Sergeants would), as they are not Veterans, but regular Battle Brothers.

But as others have said, paint it good, and somewhat easily identifiable from your Primary Detachment, and I'm good.

Necrons... I can't really see any allies seeming right with them. Allies of Desperation is fine, but they have far too many Allies of Convenience. They'll ally at a push (a really, really big push) but they really aren't the friendliest of sorts even in the context of 40k. Also they just don't look right next to most other armies. Something about the Necron aesthetic just doesn't gel with other forces, every allied Necrons/whatever army I've seen just looks really out of place and silly in my opinion. They really don't look right next to Orks, that's for sure.

With an in game weapon like the Mind Shackle Scarabs, you can't figure out how they could be "Allies of Convenience" with anyone?

Still, you have a point. My Templars are on better terms with the Eldar and Tau than they are with the Sisters of Battle! Never mind differences of opinions on how to venerate the Emperor, they are at least human have a vested interest in the Imperium, the others are freakin Xenos!

[Aventine]

Necrons... I can't really see any allies seeming right with them. Allies of Desperation is fine, but they have far too many Allies of Convenience. They'll ally at a push (a really, really big push) but they really aren't the friendliest of sorts even in the context of 40k.

I think people are stuck on the old Necron fluff from before the new Codex, when they were lifeless and just wanted to destroy everything (ie boring). The current Necrons are a lot more nuanced; they are trying to rebuild their ancient empire and will do anything they can to further that goal. I like to think of them like ancient armies who would use levies in their armies, though the general and most of the rest of the army would have a silent disdain for them.

...and definitely shouldn't be with some of them (BA and cron should be Con at best)

They're Desperate right now...

[Aspire to Glory]

I agree with those saying that it really depends on someone's intention. Allies are amazing for narrative, campaign type players.

Good: Cool, well thought out alliances. Even the unusual ones. A little effort goes a long way.

Bad: People exploiting the system to power combo like TauDar. Or, even worse, people with a DIY marine chapter who ally with themselves to cherry pick chapter tactics, especially when there are no differences to easily pick what the detachments are.

[Archon Charybdis]

Power gamers abusing crap has been and will always remain a part of the fabric of war gaming. Allies make give WAAC players a new avenue to exploit, but you don't need allies to spam Heldrakes or Wave Serpents. WAAC'ers gonna WAAC. I think the options Allies open up for regular players in terms of fun, fluffy new ways to expand your army are more of a benefit to the hobby as a whole than WAAC players doing their thing is a detriment.

[Cactus]

I don't care for allies myself, but I do expect to be able to see a difference in allies when my opponent is playing with rules from different armies or chapters. As I mentioned in the Dark Angels thread, I think it's only considerate for your opponent to be able to distinguish, at a glance, which rules apply to that unit.

Now that Marines have sub-allies within their own book, players want to take advantage of as many rules as possible, so a lot of bikes are White Scars, Sternguard are Salamanders and Scouts are Ultramarines. However, when the entire army is painted red, players (both players!) will have a tough time remembering which unit has twin-linked meltas and which unit is "vanilla." I know having a uniform paint job is desirable, but there needs to be some sort of token or distinguishing feature just so players know what's what.