People seem upset about chaos daemons why is this?

[Xaric]

I have been searching around the forums and found people dislike the new codex (mostly Tzeentch) on its new rules mostly because of the chaotic nature of it with lists trying to organize chaos first of all what does chaos mean

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos[/url]

so from what I can assume people making order from chaos removes the reason of chaos thus becoming order now that is over lets get to the main reason of this thread

I have done research on thinking outside the box and discovered some units can be used in another way that would baffle your foes but still is viable lets take a look at some examples of this via the gifts and loca.

Gifts are random as hell that is understandable but people need to focus on the 0 roll aka the weapon if you dislike the role but also take into account the benefits the rolls can have to do this you look at how the weapon can benefit you say Alluress of Slaanesh (upgrade of a daemonette) Greater gift 0 will make this model into a range model with the lash of despair and herald using mastery is a powerful combo but also rolling on the gift table giving it some crazy buffs making it worthy of the greatest gift. This is not making order of chaos but accepting the random factor and focusing on what would benefit it instead of ignoring it due to the nature of gifts I hear people advising people not to take gifts.

Locas there are people see this as this buff and advice people not to pick the others this is not how they intended the use the loca it is to specialize your units lets use Tzeentch units for the example.

Locas of Transmogrification people has advised against this they are sadly mistaken on how strong this is with the changeling who comes with this and a unit of 20 pink horrors is a great way to baffle your enemy or make them feel that they need to kill them before they reach CC you must take into account horrors get the reliable rerolls of 1 also the 5+ invulnerable save. If they die in CC possible chance of d3 blue horrors people underestimate them. but more of them die more chance to roll 6 and being a cheap model to start with being able to kill a fast attack and elites I have tried this and it is deadly someone even said I was cheating because he did not understand the blue horror rule.

Locas of Change this is about versatile horrors with a herald say your inside cover and the enemy will be in charge range if you move out of that cover and you roll a 6 16 horrors with strength 6 attacks also with their cast as they go into the shooting phase then charge with strength 6 attack also if they die spawn blue horrors it can ruin someones day in 1 turn.

Locas of Conjuration this is just more power to the cast that's all

So for you Tzeentch mono god army's horrors can be more deadly than they seem also do not forget if you take a Iridecent horror shot with them will give you persiction shots due to they are Characters most people forget this I had also forgotten this too till I looked into Character role and research on this rule in the big rule book and yes its viable if you have 16 horrors and roll high on flickering fire most likely you can kill their leader of the unit if you roll 6s that's if they don't look out sir passes all the time

Now lets take a look at deep striking this varies but take it into consideration when deep striking take an Instrument of chaos with an icon the reason for this and people keep saying it's not allowed but fail to give me the rules where it says I can't do this deep strike with this unit it can piggy back the next unit in without rolling and with the icon the piggy back unit comes in without scattering no rule said it can't do this unless someone tells me where. Taking Tzeentch again as an example you deep strike horrors in followed with screamers screamers then can use the full speed over enemy units it will benefit from slashing attack rule they have great for hurting or take flamers in great way to position them without them getting focused on the way up on the field.

ok next the special icons these are once used only but they are very strongly try to incorporate them if you can.

Banner of blood well we know blood letters get turned to Swiss cheese but lets take a closer look at this one you have a skull cannon backing you up enemy is hiding in a building use this banner normal charge and 6+d6 on a charge with no initiative penalty due to dreadskull in combat a deadly combo indeed.

Blasted Standard this is stronger than people think not only does it empower spells it also gives you overwatch for your pink horrors

Plague Banner got plaguebearers with FnP as the loca? then use this to double up the loca power for one assult

Rapturous Standard is a great way if you are against enemies that are higher initiative than you

As you can see this is what most things people hate about chaos daemons and the reason people have resulted in selling or locking them away unlike them I don't just quit I look for ways to improve the army I have chosen win or loss I love my daemons and will play them even if they are said to be unwinnable. This is just a number of things I know many more but it is already a wall of text so if you have any questions that I did not cover feel free to ask about them also keep flaming to a low if you dislike something say it in a professional manner with the reason why it is bad I will report anyone saying stuff like "It Sucks and you are wrong" with no constructive feedback of the reason why you feel that way about it lets be mature ok.

[Learn2Eel]

I'm too tired to respond to this post in full, but I must say, you do understand that Chaos Daemons are actually widely considered one of the top competitive armies in 40K right now? Many people - myself not included, for the most part - take issue with the codex because of its' random nature and somewhat erratic internal balance, not because of how it does competitively. Heck, Chaos Daemons are a regular in the top 10 of pretty much every tournament. They can put out some of the scariest lists you could possibly imagine. Any critic who has said they aren't competitive is kidding themselves.

[Popsical]

People get upset about pretty much everything to do with 40k these days. The lists of reasons is long, although 50% is because they've lost games because of something.
Oddly GW sales are still flying and showing no sign of recession, so it must be mainly hot air.
Until recently I had beefs with a few issues in 40k too, in the last month ive become of the opinion of why should I let any of it bother me?
Im happier because with 40k now I just go with the flow.
Demons are busted, chaos maureens are not chaos legions, vendettas are too cheap, hellducks are OP etc, etc, etc. All these have produced avalanches of hate, and for what effect? None.

[Chumbalaya]

So you argue that Chaos should be totally random and out of your control.

Then you suggest folks play CD using only option 0 and everything you can control.

K

[Sly]

People get upset about pretty much everything to do with 40k these days. The lists of reasons is long, although 50% is because they've lost games because of something.

Pretty much.

[Mr Mystery]

Regular tournament placing means absolutely nothing without knowing how many examples of that army were represented.

For instance..... If 50% of entrants fielded a given army, or indeed list, then one would reasonably expect them to show well, including in the 'top placing'. If however this representation barely bothered the top ten, you'd have an entirely different conclusion drawn.

Which is why I ignore the perceived meta utterly. It's inherently self fulfilling. People will field a given list because apparently it roxxorz their boxxorz. Said list becomes common. When fielded by a competent player, it does as well as can be expected. Gains more notoriety. Players adopt it. Opponents feel game against is futile, affecting their decision making with a defeatist bent.

End result, self fulfilling fools errand.

[SaveModifier]

Ignore anything you read about 40K on the internet and just enjoy your hobby.

Except for this, don't ignore this.

[Houghten]

People will field a given list because apparently it roxxorz their boxxorz.

I suppose you could proxy Boxors as Knights...

[Mr Mystery]

Tsk. Silly bugger.

Me, I've got a horde of Daemons awaiting the paintbrush. Have done since they came out. Sum total pained to date......a single Bloodletter. The other week. Experimenting with BFTBG.

[Learn2Eel]

Regular tournament placing means absolutely nothing without knowing how many examples of that army were represented.

For instance..... If 50% of entrants fielded a given army, or indeed list, then one would reasonably expect them to show well, including in the 'top placing'. If however this representation barely bothered the top ten, you'd have an entirely different conclusion drawn.

Which is why I ignore the perceived meta utterly. It's inherently self fulfilling. People will field a given list because apparently it roxxorz their boxxorz. Said list becomes common. When fielded by a competent player, it does as well as can be expected. Gains more notoriety. Players adopt it. Opponents feel game against is futile, affecting their decision making with a defeatist bent.

End result, self fulfilling fools errand.

Daemons aren't *that* common, not in the same vein as Tau/Eldar/Chaos Marines/etc at tournaments, so it makes their efforts - and those of high-placing Tyranid armies - more impressive.