Christmas Terrain Project Critique

[Nabterayl]

That's true, but I wonder if it's more true of a webway gate than any other objective? I mean, obviously an intact webway gate is more valuable than an intact wounded Imperial Guardsman. But is an intact webway gate more valuable than an intact archaeotech site, or something of that nature? I definitely think you have a point, but I wonder if it belongs more in scenario rules than the rules for the terrain feature itself.

[Just_Me]

Well, any comparison is of course relative, but I would say that in the long term an intact webway gate is considerably more valuable than, say, a bombed out building, secure fire point with good coverage, high ground, or ammo dump. These are the sorts of things that in my opinion would make up most of the objectives fought over on a 40k battlefield, the commander on the ground might not see it that way (to them the immediate tactical advantage is going to seem most important), but the overall commanders probably would. However, you may be right that such concerns are more suited to scenario rules instead of those for the terrain features themselves.

It also occurs to me that if the webway gates are meant to be rough equivalents to the Skyshield, then perhaps you could consider rules for larger webway "hubs" as well, something that is more durable and could be upgraded with integral defenses as an equivalent to strong points and bastions. That's probably more than you really want to worry about for this Christmas project, but it might be something to keep in mind for the future.

[Nabterayl]

Oh, I definitely have plans for webway gate-based indomitable fortresses But that will have to wait for another day. And besides, the smaller ones should make a good test run project.

So, after looking at this feedback, I've decided to add the following:

• In missions that use objectives, webway gates always count as an objective.
• If I can't model an easy-to-use, visually distinctive way to differentiate an open from a closed webway gate, I'm going to drop the open distinction.

[Nabterayl]

Here's another piece I'd like your guys' feedback on. This is my take on a tyranid bastion and comms array. I thought about some kind of spore mine launcher, or a hive mound bristling with devourers and a venom cannon, but ultimately it felt more "tyranid" to me to go in a different direction:

TYRANID SWARM NEST
Whenever the tyranid swarm touches a planet for any length of time, microscopic tyranid spores begin to “tyrannoform” the surface. Flora of all kinds are warped and mutated in the image of the swarm. One of the strangest products of tyrannoformation is the so-called “brood nest.” Though they may appear to be a simple network of tunnels and caverns, a brood nest is actually a tyranid organism that gestates tyranid beasts directly on a planet’s surface. Cunningly concealed amidst the overgrown plants that accompany the swarm, a brood nest may be overlooked by an enemy until the very ground seems to erupt with tyranids fresh from their birthing sacs.

Some brood nests are small enough and penetrate the planet’s surface superficially enough that they may be killed by small arms fire (flamers tend to be particularly effective). Others are so extensive that, though living organisms, they may as well be subterranean cavern networks. These nests, sometimes nicknamed “swarm nests” by those unfortunates who have encountered them, can birth even the largest tyranid monstrosities, and are extremely difficult to kill—even sustained artillery fire usually does little more than kill the surface layers and bury them. Swarm nests are often accompanied by pulsing brain-like hive nodes, which seem to serve as a kind of psychic beacon that draws distant tyranids to the nest’s defense.

Swarm Nest Rules
Building: A swarm nest is a building with an Armour Value of 14 all around. As a building, it may be attacked just like a stationary vehicle. However, a swarm nest ignores all results on the vehicle damage table other than Destroyed, including Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned. A swarm nest may hold a single unit of any size of infantry, beasts, or monstrous creatures. A swarm nest may hold a gargantuan creature if the gargantuan creature’s unit will physically fit within the footprint of the swarm nest.

Access Points: The entire swarm nest functions as a single access point. This includes the surface of the swarm nest itself.

Fire Points: The entire swarm nest functions as a single fire point that can accommodate any number of models.

It’s Alive!: Models may stand upon a swarm nest (including models that have just disembarked from the nest itself). A swarm nest counts as clear terrain to tyranid units belonging to the player who placed the nest during setup. To all other units, the swarm nest counts as Dangerous Terrain, so riddled is the ground with exit canals, shifting musculature, and bizarre epidermal defenses.

A swarm nest may be occupied by any unit, subject to its normal transport capacity restrictions. However, models occupying a swarm nest other than tyranid models belonging to the player who placed the nest suffer a single wound (with normal saves allowed) on a d6 roll of 1 at the beginning of every turn. Units occupying a swarm nest may attack it in close combat whilst inside the nest. If they do so, the swarm nest’s Armor Value counts as 10, and rolls on the vehicle damage table receive a +2 bonus.

It’s … Huge: A single swarm nest can gestate a huge number and variety of tyranid creatures in a network of vile alien wombs that extends much farther than the above-ground portion of the nest suggests. Any tyranid unit belonging to the player who placed the nest during setup may treat the swarm nest as any table edge when entering play. Units that enter play through a swarm nest are assumed to have entered play within the nest itself. Note that while any number of units could enter play from a single swarm nest in a single turn in this manner, the swarm nest would have to be empty (or the unit entering play could not enter the nest) and each unit would have to vacate the nest to make room for the unit following.

If the swarm nest is occupied by a hostile unit when a unit attempts to enter the nest from off the board, the occupying unit is immediately assaulted by the unit attempting to enter the nest in this manner. In that turn’s Assault phase, the two units will fight a close combat, with all units (including any attached Independent Characters) counting as engaged with all other units, and neither unit counting as charging or moving through Difficult Terrain. The unit occupying the swarm nest also counts as engaged with the swarm nest itself. Units fighting within a swarm nest in this manner count as Fearless whilst fighting within the nest. Whilst a unit occupying a swarm nest is engaged with a unit attempting to enter play through that swarm nest, no other unit may attempt to enter play through that swarm nest (though it may attempt to enter play through another swarm nest, if more than one is on the table).

Units fighting within a swarm nest in this manner may not move until one or the other unit or the swarm nest itself is destroyed (note that the swarm nest itself may still be targeted by shooting attacks, and the occupying unit may attack the nest in close combat even whilst fighting the unit attempting to enter play through it). If the swarm nest is destroyed whilst a unit is attempting to enter play through that nest, the unit attempting to enter play is destroyed—still alive, perhaps, but buried beneath layers of rubble or dead tissue for the duration of the battle. The unit occupying the swarm nest when it is destroyed is treated normally.

Objective: In missions that use objectives, a swarm nest always counts as an objective.

Hive Node Rules
Creature: A hive node is treated as impassable terrain. However, it may be attacked like an infantry model. Units hit a hive node automatically in close combat, and do not become locked in combat after assaulting it. It has the following profile:

T5 W3 Sv5+

Psyker: A hive node is a psyker. It has the Synapse Creature psychic power.

Comms Array: So long as it is alive, a hive node allows the player who placed it to re-roll any and all Reserve rolls.

A few notes about my design decisions for this one. First, I decided to make the nest a building rather than an immobile creature with high Toughness and lots of Wounds because of the problem of sniper rifles. Even if I made the swarm nest T10 W10, heavy sniper fire could bring it down. I didn't like the idea of this vast, subterranean bulk being put out of action by thirty sniper bullets.

Second, as I said, I wanted to make the nest serve the "bastion" role without giving it any powerful guns, as that just didn't feel right to me. This is the main reason the nest ignores Crew Shaken and Crew Stunned - a tyranid player can, if he wants to, load it up with shooty bugs (or even a shooty carnifex) and produce a reasonably shooty building.

Third, I included the hive node comms array because I think a building like this would be much more flexible if you have greater control over your Reserves - particularly in Planetstrike, if your entire army is on the table on Turn 2, it doesn't much matter that new bugs can come in through the nest (unless you play using lots of Without Number gaunts, which not everybody does). However, I didn't like the idea of using a regular comms array, since it seems very un-tyranid-like to me to have some bugs sit back and man the radio (even if that radio is a pulsating alien brain). This way the hive node doesn't have to be manned, which feels more tyranid to me - but it's also an advantage, so I tried to compensate by allowing it to be destroyed, unlike a regular comms array. I'm not sure if I've struck the correct balance between making the hive node tough enough that a tyranid player can get some good use out of it, but fragile enough to balance out the advantage of an autonomous comms array.

[Lord Anubis]

As has been suggested before, I'd also lose the open/ closed rule for the webway. It is nice and fuffy, but so are a lot of the other rules. This one just seems like a bit ofovercomplication, and I agree with Atrotos that it'll probably just be the rule that gets forgotten anyway. Lose the rule and give the gate a 5+ save all the time.

For movement, what if you said models cannot enter and leave the webway in the same phase?

For the swarm nest... two things.

One, rather than altering the way access points and fire points work, why not just make the swam nest open topped? You're counting it as a building/immobile vehicle with armor 14, so the open-topped rule would be clear out those two issues while also giving a nod to the fact that it's organic, not a land raider...

Second, it seems very odd to have it switch over to being a creature with toughness and wounds in assault, especially such low ones compared to its armor value (a barehanded Guard infantry platoon could probably destroy it in one assault phase). Why not just have it stay an armor 14 building/ immobile vehicle that people need powerfists, thunderhammers, and the like to take apart?

[Nabterayl]

As has been suggested before, I'd also lose the open/ closed rule for the webway. It is nice and fuffy, but so are a lot of the other rules. This one just seems like a bit ofovercomplication, and I agree with Atrotos that it'll probably just be the rule that gets forgotten anyway. Lose the rule and give the gate a 5+ save all the time.

For movement, what if you said models cannot enter and leave the webway in the same phase?

Okay, I'll definitely re-think the open/closed thing. I'm curious, though - do people feel the same way about Skyshields? It feels like essentially the exact same rule to me, in terms of usefulness/how easy it is to remember.

As for restricting phase, the reason I'm reluctant to do that is because my group tends to play on 6'x4' boards or even slightly smaller. Given how fast eldar armies can move, I feel like restricting the mobility a gate gives you would reduce their importance - why enter the webway this turn and leave it the next when you can just jet over there conventionally?

For the swarm nest... two things.

One, rather than altering the way access points and fire points work, why not just make the swam nest open topped? You're counting it as a building/immobile vehicle with armor 14, so the open-topped rule would be clear out those two issues while also giving a nod to the fact that it's organic, not a land raider...

Anybody else have opinions about this? Open-topped I am definitely in favor of, but I don't want to make the thing too fragile, so I wonder if it should just be open-topped but without the +1 on the damage table. It's not a Land Raider, true, but it is tough enough to have carnifexes and potentially hierodules stomping around inside its guts.

Second, it seems very odd to have it switch over to being a creature with toughness and wounds in assault, especially such low ones compared to its armor value (a barehanded Guard infantry platoon could probably destroy it in one assault phase). Why not just have it stay an armor 14 building/ immobile vehicle that people need powerfists, thunderhammers, and the like to take apart?

The swarm nest and hive node are not supposed to be the same thing; they're two totally separate pieces of terrain (though hopefully they synergize on the tabletop). A swarm nest is still an AV14 in assault, or an AV10 building with +2 on the damage table if you're assaulting it from the inside. Speaking of which, is that too much? Should it maybe just be AV10 on the inside, period?

[Atrotos]

Once again you show a keen understanding of the game and what rules need to be written in order for these new additions to work. You've done a good job covering as many eventualities as possible before you've gotten a chance to playtest. This fact, combined with the high believability of the units you present lend these rules an entertaining quality well worth commenting on.

The swarm nest breaks the unwritten rule of "no models should ever overlap while still functioning." This rules has never been broken by any unit in the game to my knowledge, that is, no unit is permitted to exist in the same space as another. It seems that the rules you've written cover this well but I'd keep an eye on this fact. Be prepared to chage the rules slightly if it doesn't work.

Making the swarm nest open topped, as Lord Anubis said, will make the Access and Fire Point rules unnecessary. Shorter rules are better rules.

As with the Portal I can't really guess how balanced these structures would be in game. They clearly favor one race over another but without the attendant cost in points. Regardless of what commentary you receive here I suspect it will take at least a dozen playtests before the full implications of these additions are brought to light.

[Lord Anubis]

The swarm nest and hive node are not supposed to be the same thing; they're two totally separate pieces of terrain (though hopefully they synergize on the tabletop).

Ack! Sorry about that. I completely misread it. Ignore that comment.

[Just_Me]

I agree that simply making it open-topped is a less complex solution, you can just say "it counts as open-topped but does not suffer the associated penalties on the damage chart." This thing is buried underground, it should be damned tough to kill.

By contrast I think the vulnerabilities when attacked from the inside make sense, it would be much easier to destroy from within. This is also an incentive to accept the risks associated with going inside. As a final point, it is very flavorful, the image of a hard-bitten team of daring specialists entering the bowels of the vile alien hive in order to destroy it is a powerful piece of classic sci-fi horror that fits very well with the Tyranids.

[Nabterayl]

Open-topped it is. I'm not going to include the +1 to damage rolls, though - my hope is that, if folks like this, it can become the standard for tyranid "bastions" in our group, and I feel like a bastion with no guns whatsoever deserves to be tough to kill, even if it does have other cool abilities. My biggest concern is a Planetstrike one, as Firestorm attacks are effectively S10 - I don't want these things to be killed in the Firestorm too often. I'll keep an open mind about it during play tests, though.