Getting started! Opinions Plz!

[Kevin48220]

Generally I wouldn't recommend an Undead army to a beginner, or an Elf army for that matter, . . .

Hey, can I ask you to amplify on your opinion about an elf army not being good for beginners?

I'm asking because I'm just about ready to take the plunge into WFB, and I was looking at both High and Dark Elves, along with Lizardmen. I was just curious as to why you'd say to avoid the elves starting out--they seem to have a good balance of elements (movement, combat, shooting, magic) and unit types.

Right now, I'm leaning most heavily toward going with Lizardmen, just 'cause I dig alligators and dinosaurs. But I thought one of the Elf armies might be good to start with, since they have a better variety of core troops and maybe have more shooting options than the Lizardmen.

[Learn2Eel]

High Elves and Dark Elves have a better mix of shooting, magic and combat than most other armies paired up with naturally higher mobility. The issue is that they are high cost, fragile models, and thus you have to really dictate the battle in the movement phase. They also rely on their elite infantry - mostly White Lions and Executioners, respectively - to deal with highly armoured enemies. Whereas armies like Warriors of Chaos and Ogre Kingdoms can get away with mistakes and simplistic tactics, Elf armies generally require a more skilled player because your army is mostly 9+ point per model dudes with Toughness 3 and 5+ armour or worse.

There are ways around their fragility issues though, and I would say both armies are more forgiving than they used to be. Making sure to engage the right units is one, and as both armies have excellent 'chaff' units, this shouldn't be too hard - again though, it requires a more advanced understanding of how to do things like frenzy baiting and double fleeing to really make the most of them. Another is to just go all-out offensive and smash enemies to bits before they can strike by loading up on those aforementioned elite infantry, though attrition wars and fights against hordes of Plaguebearers - for example - won't end well. Each army generally has a couple of things to get around their fragility. High Elves have their High Magic Lore Attribute, the Banner of the World Dragon, Frostheart Phoenixes and so on. Dark Elves have the Cauldron of Blood (5+ ward to a unit), debuffs in Dark Magic, higher armour saves (especially on characters) and better/more varied chaff.

Lizardmen are a solid army where most of your units are S4 T4 and thus can both dish out and take damage pretty well, as well as being decently cheap. While Elf Spearmen are 9 points a model, a Saurus Warrior is 11 points a model and has (IMO) more preferable stats, though he is more susceptible to Initiative tests and has fewer special rules. They win on strict durability and offensive power against most enemies, and their Cold Blooded special rule gives them an edge for Leadership tests despite a lower value. Lizardmen have fantastic chaff with all manner of Skinks and even Salamanders if you want to consider them in such a way. On that note, Salamanders are just brutal and will make their points back nine times out of ten the first time they shoot. They have a good selection of monsters and arguably the best spellcaster in the game when kitted out right, the Slaan. Also, Tetto'eko is ridiculous.

[Kevin48220]

Thanks for the reply on that. I did a demo game with High Elves, but obviously, that's not going to show me the whole army. From what you're saying, it sounds like Lizardmen are going to be able to survive a new player's mistakes a bit more easily than elves. I think I have to keep in mind that while I'm fairly used to 40K, WFB is a different animal in so many ways.

[Katharon]

A good starting army is either Empire or Orcs & Goblins. Both are straight forward and are strong enough to match up against any other army with a variety of army builds.

[The_Gonk]

A good starting army is either Empire or Orcs & Goblins. Both are straight forward and are strong enough to match up against any other army with a variety of army builds.

I kind of agree here. I think that both are straight-forward but need a certain temperament. For Orcs and Goblins you really need to be able to take the rough with the smooth and laugh off the ridiculous - they're less reliable than even Skaven.

As for Empire, you can do well and they are straight forward up until they're not and you don't
You're reliant on synergy to win against generally better troops and in Tournament games you will generally be beaten if your opponent can pick a link of that apart by neutering your magic/characters/buff wagons. The Steam Tank is awesome though (mostly)!

[Kaptain Badrukk]

OK. Here's a WFB player's opinion.
I'd catagorise the armies under four headings, based on builds derived from the starter box/battleforce.
Obviously your build will drastically change your play style and what these armies can do. But this list neatly covers "standard" builds.
Forgiving - These armies allow a LOT of mistakes, soak up casualties and/or are reliable in a pinch.
They may have some weird special rules etc, but the defining factor for them is that you can mess up and keep going.
Vampire Counts - As long as your casters are alive things are ok, and your casters are a "pain in the neck" to kill (Chortle).
Dwarfs - They rarely run, are cheap for what they do, and generally have very little random wtf going on.
Lizard men - like dwarfs but with magic and monsters. So yeah, no complaints.
Daemons - No morale, potentially regenerating troops, ward saves across the board, decent magic. Ok they have a wibbly table, but it's not THAT bad.

Finesse - These armies need some planning, and a bit of luck to go the way you planned, BUT with practice (sometimes a LOAD of practice) you can make seriously nasty lists. They're flexible, and don't suffer from too much randomness, things can go more wrong (more quickly) than above.
High Elves - Solid leadership and access to decent gear and USRs, low toughness can suck, and when a unit breaks it's a big loss. Magic can counter this of course.
Dark Elves - Hard hitting, but they feel the hurt too. Same as High Elves really, just with access to different units.
Warriors of Chaos - Elite armies, life is hard BUT man are their units nasty. The challenge rules aren't TOO bad either.
Ogre Kingdoms - Elite army, much like above, BUT they have some seriously nasty units. Borderline broken I'm told. Low LD is their weakness.
Empire - Synergy, they need Synergy. Still they're fun and forgiving up to a point. Jut never expect to win a 1on1 fight.
Bretonnia - Believe it or not I've seen these guys really run a challenging list at tournaments, but only because the player was REALLY good.
Tomb Kings - Harder than Vampire Counts and easier than some of the others, they're a challenge but not a massive one.
Random - These armies are surprising, and in fact can be darn scary, the issue is that they've also got such random factors going for them that they can utterly implode without your opponent even rolling a dice.
Skaven - The heavy hitter of this category, if the dice are on your side OR you stack the list in your favor you can utterly obliterate your opponents. On the other hand you have the chance of imploding pretty hard.
Orcs and Goblins - Yeah, things can go bad. If they don't you've got a solid list, if they do you're boned. Funny funny stuff can happen, but also utter losses can be achieved by simply not being able to act.
Old Hat - These lists are aging a bit hard, they struggle with the edition or the age of the book or both
Wood Elves - Yeah, if you want a real challenge in an army then they're your guys, this army does not enjoy 8th edition.
Beastmen - Tough but playable. They're not going to provide you with any easy wins, but with serious practice you can get some hard won victories to feel proud of.