1850 pts CSM List - Please critique

[Garradh]

Hi team! I built this list and I've had some success with it, just want your thoughts for ways points might be more efficiently spent/something I may have missed!

HQ - Abaddon

Troops - 10x CSM, Plasma gun and Lascannon
Troops - 10x CSM, Plasma gun and Lascannon
Troops - 10x Cultists, 4 Autoguns and Heavy Stubber
Troops - 10x Chosen, MoK, Champ PW, 2 Meltas, PW, PF

Elites - 4x Terminators, MoT, Champ 2 Lightning Claws, all others Combi-Melta and Power Fist, Land Raider

Fast Attack - Hellturkey w/Baleflamer

Heavy Support - Obliterator, MoN
Heavy Support - Obliterator, MoN

Fortification - Bastion, Quad-Gun


Cultists man the Quad-gun while the CSM squads sit back to provide a fire line and hold objectives. Depending on how much I'm being out-gunned I'll stick a CSM squad on the roof and put the Cultists inside the bunker to man the heavy bolters. Abaddon and Termi Friends ride in the Land Raider with the Chosen behind that (usually literally) for a 1-2 assault punch. Obliterators either tag along with the Land Raider for target saturation/fire support or reinforce the CSM gun line.

Thoughts?

[daboarder]

Hi team! I built this list and I've had some success with it, just want your thoughts for ways points might be more efficiently spent/something I may have missed!

HQ - Abaddon

Troops - 10x CSM, Plasma gun and Lascannon
Troops - 10x CSM, Plasma gun and Lascannon

Without combat squads these are only going to be half as effective as they should be, moving into optimal plasmagun/scoring range means that the lascannon is useless and holding back to fire the lascannon mean they are not doing their primary job, scoring and engaging with 12"
Troops - 10x Cultists, 4 Autoguns and Heavy Stubber
Troops - 10x Chosen, MoK, Champ PW, 2 Meltas, PW, PF
With no delivery system these will be obliterated by even moderate firepower, despite their cost they die just like other marines

Elites - 4x Terminators, MoT, Champ 2 Lightning Claws, all others Combi-Melta and Power Fist, Land Raider

Drop the claws on the champ, the exorbitant wargear tax on them is insane, I mean paying 21 pts for +1A, if you really want the claw then take a combi-something on the other arm. I would also recomend MoN over Tzeentch as it is more in game effective and abbadon doesn't care. you should also consider K and T as if you run abby with the squad he get the bonus of their respective icons.

Fast Attack - Hellturkey w/Baleflamer
Of course

Heavy Support - Obliterator, MoN
Heavy Support - Obliterator, MoN
Solid, if you want to run them as more than single oblit also buy VotLW for the +1Ld

Fortification - Bastion, Quad-Gun

Aegis probably does the same job more effectively.


Cultists man the Quad-gun while the CSM squads sit back to provide a fire line and hold objectives. Depending on how much I'm being out-gunned I'll stick a CSM squad on the roof and put the Cultists inside the bunker to man the heavy bolters. Abaddon and Termi Friends ride in the Land Raider with the Chosen behind that (usually literally) for a 1-2 assault punch. Obliterators either tag along with the Land Raider for target saturation/fire support or reinforce the CSM gun line.

Thoughts?

finally, If you are running abbadon you want to maximize his force multiplication, as in you want him spreading that PE:SM too as many units as possible, the LR is good for this as the effect is measured from the hull of the raid, but currently only the Oblits will benefit. My advice, drop the lascannons to double plas, drop some of the choices on the chosen and add say 3 plasma minimum, then grab them all rhinos (points form the dropping the bastion to an aegis if you need it.)

PS: run Axes on your termies over PF's, Abby will screw anything like walkers, MC's or tanks they run into anyway.

[Katharon]

More MoN, replace Bastion with Aegis, remove Cultists and put more points into making your Chosen better at medium range (more plasma) or add more bodies to your regular CSM squads.

[Garradh]

remove Cultists

Lolno. Cheap sit-back-and-shoot quad gun that never has to maneuver and can hide in whatever, camping an objective, is well worth the four Marines I could buy instead.

more points into making your Chosen better at medium range (more plasma)

I never understood this. If I wanted a lot of plasma guns in one squad, I'd take some Havocs. But I see CSM lists do it all the time. In this list it would be expensive albeit scoring Havocs instead of regular Havocs. I'll think on it.

As for daboarder's advice - might switcheroo the Terminator wargear around to try to squeeze a Rhino in for the Chosen. I'm a strong case for "your mileage may vary" when it comes to plasma guns, I've lost untold numbers of Khorne Berserkers and Blood Angel Assault Marines to overheating + armor save fails. I know it's all statistics and blind chance but . . . man . . . plasma has spent ten years teaching me not to take plasma. I'm also seeing where my list is very "kill GK Paladins" heavy instead of "fight against modern lists/win the game" heavy. There's no good First Blood solution unless the opponent has a Rhino hanging out of cover, there's no focus on Linebreaker other than Abaddon and the Chosen - I could definitely afford to add another scoring maneuver element instead of one maneuver and three defensive elements.

Thanks for the advice, gents, I'll think on it, play around a bit and see what feels good to me.

Aegis line vs Bastion - I have had VERY good mileage with my Bastion. An immobilized AV14 quad autocannon that can hold two troops, but then I can already tell myself that I'm not optimizing it and with my current gunline play style an Aegis would probably be as effective.

[chicop76]

Lolno. Cheap sit-back-and-shoot quad gun that never has to maneuver and can hide in whatever, camping an objective, is well worth the four Marines I could buy instead.



I never understood this. If I wanted a lot of plasma guns in one squad, I'd take some Havocs. But I see CSM lists do it all the time. In this list it would be expensive albeit scoring Havocs instead of regular Havocs. I'll think on it.

As for daboarder's advice - might switcheroo the Terminator wargear around to try to squeeze a Rhino in for the Chosen. I'm a strong case for "your mileage may vary" when it comes to plasma guns, I've lost untold numbers of Khorne Berserkers and Blood Angel Assault Marines to overheating + armor save fails. I know it's all statistics and blind chance but . . . man . . . plasma has spent ten years teaching me not to take plasma. I'm also seeing where my list is very "kill GK Paladins" heavy instead of "fight against modern lists/win the game" heavy. There's no good First Blood solution unless the opponent has a Rhino hanging out of cover, there's no focus on Linebreaker other than Abaddon and the Chosen - I could definitely afford to add another scoring maneuver element instead of one maneuver and three defensive elements.

Thanks for the advice, gents, I'll think on it, play around a bit and see what feels good to me.

Aegis line vs Bastion - I have had VERY good mileage with my Bastion. An immobilized AV14 quad autocannon that can hold two troops, but then I can already tell myself that I'm not optimizing it and with my current gunline play style an Aegis would probably be as effective.

Only thing to add is that if you're playing guard than plasma is awesome or if the unit is twin linked. With guard I may lose a lot, but mostly they easily earn back the points I dumped in them.

Chosen with plasma hit you more than 30 points a model. Not sure they will earn their points back.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

for the terminators youu have abbadon with them why would you need 2 power fists? maybe save those points and take power weapons? you can run them with axes if you wanted ap2 or you could run them with mauls or swords or more lightning claws.

The chosen i am not a fan of mixing their load out. your going to want to have those guys kitted for a single role combat or for shooting. if for shooting them plasma is not a bad way to go. if for combat then get more power weapons.

i do have an issue with the lack of mobility in this list. i understand your running a gunline theme with them but what do you have to take my objectives? or to even contest objectives at mid field?

i wont say anything about the single baleflamer i tend to run 2 but i believe 1 can do the job it just needs to have some more forsight in placement as well as in the elimination of anything that could threaten it.

[Garradh]

Don't forget Abaddon makes Chosen scoring. I also prefer to take the Fearless icon over spending points on VotLW.

[SON OF ROMULOUS]

I refuse to take vets on my marines when i coudl just spend a few more points nd make them fearless. yes you can argue about icon sniping and about placement but seriously if the icon is already dead then what else did they kill? so i don't worry so much about icon sniping.