State of WFB Rundown by Harry

[quindia]

I am more of a lurker around here and I haven't played WFB in a very long time (I play 40k frequently). I dropped WFB waaaay back when GW changed the block formation rank bonus from four models to five models. I had FIVE WFB armies at the time all between 1500 and 2500 points. Twelve model elite units with +2 rank bonuses were viable units then. My sturdy twenty four model rank and file units went from six ranks to four. Eight model cavalry units became one rank. The prospect of adding models to twenty plus units was so distasteful, I simply kept playing the old edition with my friends who either owned armies similarly designed or used one of mine. Eventually I sold or gave everything away.

I like some of the changes in the last few editions, but not enough to get back in beyond buying the rule book and a couple of army books. I am more tempted by the Oldhammer movement these days. I am hoping 9th gets me excited about the game again, but I honestly don't know what GW needs to do for that.

[Solution9]

I am curious to know in which the context of these discussions GW is having about WHFB. We are hearing that GW is not happy with how much it's making. Are they talking about Fantasy as a whole or in a particular region? Does anyone know that answer?

[War Painter]

A consolidation could make our lives easier or harder, probably a case by case basis. I know the idea of books containing more than one army book in it was discussed, and that's great if you play the armies in that one book. I wouldn't want to have to buy a 3 books at 3 times the price of the three I'd normally get for the armies I play. Though I'll be honest, we probably would have seen a rise in some of the sales when LotR movies came about, and more with the Hobbit... except they made a game based on those properties to compete with Fantasy. I think we'd be seeing a much better return from Fantasy if LotR/Hobbit miniatures game didn't pop up.

Ultimately my love is always going to be Warhammer Fantasy. I don't mind expanding my armies. I have the beginnings of Vampire Counts, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Beastmen and Empire all in my home and I'd love to play all of them. I just hope we don't see a continued downgrading and dismissal of Fantasy.

[Kevin48220]

I think Warpainter has really hit the nail on the head, in that GW has set up its own worst competition; itself. From a business standpoint, it makes sense to take advantage of the LOTR/Hobbit films and release the game line; it will sell, for sure. But, I hope they are not doing that and looking at the WFB numbers without keeping in mind that they are draining off possible WFB players and getting them into Hobbit and LOTR gaming.

It'll be interesting to see how the WFB numbers shift once the LOTR/Hobbit licenses are up. I don't know if there will be a migration from those systems to WFB, or if that will be a missed opportunity, if GW fails to find a way to bring players from the one to the other (by that, I mean those who play LOTR/Hobbit and not any other GW games).

[Wildeybeast]

My understanding was that GW always saw Middle Earth games as more than just a cash cow; they were intended to bring people into GW stores and act as a gateway drug to the GW systems. How much this has actually happened (especially given the strict contractual restrictions New Line insisted on to stop that happening) is unknown to anyone but GW and I doubt they know.

[Deadlift]

My understanding was that GW always saw Middle Earth games as more than just a cash cow; they were intended to bring people into GW stores and act as a gateway drug to the GW systems. How much this has actually happened (especially given the strict contractual restrictions New Line insisted on to stop that happening) is unknown to anyone but GW and I doubt they know.

This is exactly how I got back into the hobby in 2007. I walked into my local, bought a ton of LOTR dwarfs and rule books etc. Bought White Dwarf and within a month I had started 40k

[eldargal]

I know several people who got in via the same way, including several girls and women who went from LOTR books and films to LOTR miniature painting to playing games to WFB and 40k. It's only anecdotal but I wouldn't be at all surprised if there was a noticeable increase in WFB and 40k collectors from LOTR and perhaps from the Hobbit now too. But as Wildey said the only people who will have any idea is GW.

[War Painter]

I'm not going to say it didn't bridge over for some people, but I think it also prevented people from going into their other system, and more specifically fantasy. This isn't a cheap hobby, and many people hopping onto the LotR game probably didn't have the time or money to drop on something else, so for anyone in that situation the bridge didn't gap, and GW has been making it harder and harder to play multiple systems from their lines.

When I first walked into GW fantasy caught my eye, and this was before the LotR movies ever came out. I had just read the books and it certainly helped me sway my interest towards that game system and it has been my favorite ever since. When they finally made the game and the product was put out in the GW store guess what got diminished to make room? If you guessed Fantasy you are correct. 40k still had a whole half of the store, they still had all their specialty games on display (this was before Epic, Mordhiem and Dreadfleet stopped being carried in store) and Fantasy became a section roughly the same size at the LotR section, which was a real disappointment considering how much more there was in that range. I actually had to dig through blister back rows just to find different armies. Now with the specialty games gone Fantasy's section has opened back up, but I think the time to capitalize has kind of passed. As Deadlift said he got into 40k after LotR, not fantasy. I think that would be more likely just because of the extremely different setting and similar looking play style. Fantasy, IMHO, took a real hit from it. Now I can't say this is 100% accurate, just my impression from over a decade of loyalty to fantasy.

[Faultie]

I always saw the LOTR/Hobbit license more as a denial-purchase, the same way a film studio will buy up a bunch of scripts for similar movies to one it is making in order to thin out the competition. Even if it never made a ton of money from the license, it's enough that there isn't some competitor out there with a vibrant LOTR/Hobbit fantasy miniatures game to siphon away money.

Just my perception, though.

[Wildeybeast]

I have no doubt that was part of it. That it also made them a ton of money at the time (though I gather they were over-reliant on that and hit them hard when the bubble burst after the films) was also part of it, as was the idea it would act as a gateway game. Whatever, it was a good decision at the time. The issue now is whether the continued existence of the Middle Earth franchise is taking sales away from Warhammer or introducing more people to it. That sort of thing is impossible to quantify on raw sales figures and its one of the things GW could do with some market research on. But they don't do that.