State of WFB Rundown by Harry

[Mr Mystery]

Funny you should mention static settings....

Sigmar's Blood is new background....progressive background....can I say more? Spoilers!

[Baneblade]

The shop where I go there is actually a 50/50 split between 40 and WFB, as well as a strong LOTR/Hobbit community.

[Kaptain Badrukk]

As a player of all 3 (and having working in GW stores for several years) I'd say 40k is clearly the "big show" in the GW range, but that doesn't mean the others are too bad off. And WFB has been 2nd fiddle since before 6th edition, let alone 8th.

[Wildeybeast]

I guess the key question we should consider is why 40k sells so much more. After all, that is what the design team will be asking themselves. I think we can rule out the models as they are just as good in Warhammer. Is it as simple as fantasy setting vs sci fi one? Swords vs guns? Or is it something abut the rules mechanics? Given that 40k is bringing in more psychology, different weapon profiles, flyers, terrain rules, psychic spells and so on, I think we can rule out the idea that fantasy is more 'difficult' to get to grips with. The only significant difference I can see rules wise is ranked up models and movement and I don't see what they can do to change that without getting rid of it, which they won't do as it's one of the hallmarks of fantasy.
What do you lot think is the issue? What do they have to address in 9th edition to close the sales gap.

[eldargal]

The ratio of 40K to WFB sales from Black Library were over 5:1 in favor of 40K. The average GW Proper plastic kits ratios were 3:1, to 2:1 in favor of 40k, all up and down the list. Sources have indicated the trends continue to this day and GW has not turned it around.

The WFB section is also one fifth the size of the BL 40k section of Black Library, funny coincidence. As to the plastic kits those figures make sense, but blaming 8th as a ruleset doesn't. GW say themselves most of their customers are collectors and friendly gamers and in my own anecdotal experience the thing that puts people of WFB isn't the rules or even the expense but how damned horrid a lot of the older plastic kits are. The plastic core for most of the armies is poor to average for most armies, bar those that have been recently updated like the new Dark Elf warriors.

While I agree WFB can't get an unjustified amount of resources it is also true that WFB has been comparatively neglected, it was really only with 8th edition that it started to see larger, better plastic kits appear for every army. So that in itself can be a self fulfilling thing, GW put less money in, sales declined in favour of 40k where hte kits were fancier, WFB made less money, got less resources, etc.

[Denzark]

Self licking lollipop...

[Kaptain Badrukk]

As someone who ran THOUSANDS of intro games over 5 years I'll tell you this for nothing, the majority of people who bought toys went and bought 40k.
50% of them did it because the non-staff person (of all ages) who introduced them did so via 40k, they then logically bought 40k to play their friend.
The other 50% just preferred sci-fi to fantasy.

[Mr Mystery]

Yup.

40k is simply more accessible to most.

Warhammer I tend to find comes later in people's hobby. But once tasted it quickly becomes an obsession!

I'm partaking in Sigmar's Blood with my local manager (also former bossman). With any luck we'll pique interest in the game with the narrative army collecting it promotes!

[NockerGeek]

It doesn't help that the cost of entry for WFB is so much higher, just because of the model count involved. With most WFB games being in the 2000-2500 point range, and the game favoring large blocks of troops, even "elite" armies like High Elves require tons of models. I've tried getting into it with an IOB box, a Battalion box (the older pre-8th edition box), some Dragon Princes, and a couple of characters, and I'm still barely hitting 1500. Thank goodness I didn't try to go for Skaven - I love the army, but the investment involved in cash and time to buy, build, and paint them would be soulcrushing and wallet-emptying for a new player.

40K actually has armies that can run on smaller model counts, and while it does have horde armies, you can choose not to play one (or even play a non-horde variant, like Nidzilla or Veteran IG). I have fewer infantry models in my 1850 Black Templars army than in some single units in Fantasy. There's also little to no support for smaller games of Fantasy - 40K has Kill Team and Combat Patrol and can work in smaller point increments, while it seems like WFB just... doesn't, especially with the point percentages. As a result, there's no good way to pick up WFB casually or in small increments. That also makes it hard to push as a secondary game for people, compared to the skirmish games that have popped up everywhere in increasing rates. One just can't dabble in WFB. (By the way, anyone want to buy a mostly-unassembled High Elf army?)

[Ben_S]

I have fewer infantry models in my 1850 Black Templars army than in some single units in Fantasy. There's also little to no support for smaller games of Fantasy - 40K has Kill Team and Combat Patrol and can work in smaller point increments, while it seems like WFB just... doesn't, especially with the point percentages.

You make good points but on these two:

1) A lot of 40k armies rely on dedicated transports, so you may need a Rhino etc for every ten men. (The arrival of 6th edition practically killed my Dark Eldar because the WWP got nerfed and I didn't want to buy, assemble, paint, then transport a fleet of Raiders/Venoms, which would have cost more (£) than their contents.) Personally, I'd much rather have 20 infantry than ten infantry + transport.

2) Mordheim? Yes, it's not Warhammer, but Kill Team isn't exactly 40k either (despite being more similar). Moreover, just because you can play small games of 40k (like 500 points) doesn't mean it's balanced at those levels, any more than Fantasy at 1,000. Both games, in so far as they are balanced, are designed for larger games.