Cypher and Dark Vengeance

[Tooze]

With the new rules for Cypher being released some guys at the game club were musing about running both sides of Dark Vengeance together under one banner. The army would use the Chaos Spacemarine book, with the dark angels representing "fallen" and the chaos being a war and that joined forces...

My question to you fine fellows is, how many points do you think you could reasonably get from this arrangement? If you were to build this into a proper army, what would you add to get to say 1850?

For those without the data sheet, Cypher is 190 points

[Ben_S]

I've seen calculations done for the two sides of DV, though I don't remember the totals offhand. (I could look them up, but so could you!) The trouble I see is making a legal list. You have two DA HQs, one for the CSM, and Cypher himself. Can you run the DA as primary detachment, CSM as allies, and Cypher on top? Or does he take up one of the HQ slots? Also, even if you can do that, I think the Helbrute and Chosen are both Elites, so you'd have to drop one of them.

[Tooze]

Cypher would take up one of the HQ slots so you could run either a Sorceror (librarian) or have two models to chose from as a Chaos Lord.

Could run the chosen, hellbrute, and terminators as elites. I think ball parking it without stretching for wargear would come in around 1000 points. I guess my question for the community is how to finish this list? Would you pick up transports for the terminators or chosen? A heldrake? Some more bikes or troops?

[Ben_S]

Ah, so you want to use all the models as CSM? I assumed from your talk of them joining together that you would be using them as allies.

Trouble then is that the DA aren't really kitted out with CSM weapons options - you can't use the assault cannon or plasma cannon (afaik) and wouldn't really want all those powerfists.

[Tepogue]

Assault cannon = Reaper
Plasma Cannon = Lascannon
Storm Bolter = combi bolter

If it's explained to your opponent and/or modified a little. A little mixing and matching, downgrade the Dark Angels characters to just champions for the squads.

So something like:

HQ
Cypher
Chaos Sorceror

Elites
5x Terminators
Hellbrute
Chosen Squad Add the Chaos Lord into this squad as it's champion.

Fast Attack
Bike Squad

Troops
10x Cultists
10x Cultists
11x Chaos Marines(using tactical Squad) - SM captain goes here with plasma gunner and plasma cannon(mod to be lascannon)

I would have no problem playing against it.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

It might be simplest to just run the Plasma Cannon as a Plasma Gun - it's a very simple counts-as ("this two-handed obviously plasma weapon is a plasma gun"), and it lets you run a Chaos Marine squad with two plasma guns.

[Tooze]

So what should I look to add? The bike seem a little low numbers wise to be effective. What about a transport for the terminators, chosen, or marine squads? And, just because I have to ask... Is taking a flyer a good idea just because its a flyer? My local area is pretty light with fliers themselves, but plenty of aegis lines

[Timmytimmy]

Cypher doesn't use up a HQ slot..... So you can take two HQs on top of him.

[MrBo]

you can get the 6 dv chosen on ebay for in between 10 and 20 dollars,then you have a full squad to infiltrate with.I personally converted the chaos lord onto a dv bike.Also if your keeping the cultists in, use them in one blob, and join your chaos lord to make them fearless.As far as extra units go, it sounds like you're trying to keep it on the cheap side, i would suggest going to ebay with 100 dollars and buying an army lot (some people cant be bothered with splitting up their army to sell. For 100 bucks, u can usually get 1000 points of stuff that would otherwise cost much more if you bought it separately ,even on ebaY)
hope that helps.

[Thornblood]

For the background side of things I would avoid terminators and bikes because deathwing and ravenwing were seperate companies/chapters that did not side with Luther/Cypher. I would fill out the army with basic marine units, maybe pushing to twenty strong units, and maybe bulk out the chosen.