Copy Of Tyranid Codex In Hand

[Power Klawz]

But again if you're just going to smash low toughness targets you really don't need either, you could rock the base scything talons and toxin sacks for much cheaper and go H.A.M.

So speaking in generalities, toughness 1-2 its a wash and nobody cares because targets with toughness that low are hard to come by anyways.

Toughness 3 its a wash for the tyrant and the obliterax is better for primes due to all wounds causing instant death.

Toughness 4 is also a wash for tyrants, For Primes the Obliterax is better (both get rerolls, Obliterax wounds on 2+ as opposed to 3+ for BS/LW/TS). If you're smashing against toughness 4 with the tyrant then you wasted any points you put into weapons anyways, but ultimately you come out with a smaller volume of wounds with all those wounds causing instant death. Probably worth it if you're dueling a space marine captain or something.

Toughness 5 the obliterax is better for both tyrants and primes. Tyrants will wound on 2+ with rerolls as opposed to wounding on 3+ with rerolls, Primes will wound on 3+ with rerolls as opposed to 4+ with rerolls.

toughness 6 the obliterax is better for both again. The tyrant wounds on 3+ instead of 4+ and the prime wounds on 4+ with rerolls as opposed to 4+ without rerolls.

And so on and so forth. When smashing toughness 4 to 5 targets with the tyrant you trade wound volume for guaranteed instant death. Good for dueling characters and swatting multi-wound models, not so good for churning through single wound units.

So for primes the Obliterax is pretty nice. Since they don't have the option to smash they can make much better use of the instant death causing 6s as well. Its main weakness being that it's only AP3, but I believe you can combine it with rending talons if you want for slightly uber instant death rending goodness. Hell you can even throw toxin sacks on top of the whole enchilada if you feel like manning up to a Wraithknight for some reason.

For Tyrants its a bit more wishy washy. Yes the Obliterax is better if you don't smash in almost all circumstances, but why wouldn't you smash? Most targets of import are toughness 5 or less with the exception of wraith lords and knights and some tyranid MCs. What it really does it put a credible one turn kill of any opposing MC into your hands. If you don't plan on facing high toughness (6 or more) targets, then its still a little better at wading through infantry than BS/LW/TS, but against the targets that count you're still better off smashing to guarantee all wounds are instant death, in which case Lash whips and toxin sacks win because they give you rerolls and improved initiative for 15 points cheaper.

Notice that I didn't say that the Obliterax is functionally worse in any situation, just that in certain situations it performs identically for more points. If you think you'll be in those situations more often than not then they won't be worth it.

[Big_jon]

Dakka has the full book on display. Along with numerous other sources

I'm not seeing where the full book is on display.

[Dazalot]

I am not seeing it either. LIES! DABOARDER IS FULL OF FAIRY LIES!

[The Silent King]

Hey guys! I'd be happy to help with the mathammer
So as far as I can see, the question is "assuming we have a sword and toxin sacs, when is it preferable to smash and when is it preferable to not"
So obviously against targets t3 or less, we're always causing instant death anyway, so obviously don't smash.
Against t4-5 targets, then if we smash this essentially grants all of our attacks instant death, and so although the attacks value drops, our chance to instant death goes from 7/36 to 35/36, which is a full 5x better. Clearly smashing is the best choice here unless the target is on 1 wound.
Against higher toughness targets it's a much more complex question, based around "how likely am I to die if my opponent gets to strike" (either this round after us or next round before us), and "how many wounds does my opponent have left".
These are all formatted "regular attacks" vs "smash"
Against t6, we're 4s with rerolls vs 2s with rerolls, 6s causing ID
For t7 and 8, 4s vs 2s w rerolls, 6s causing ID
t9, 4s vs 3s with rerolls, 6s causing ID
t10, 4s vs 4s with rerolls, 6s causing ID
The best thing to look at in each case is the trade off in probability- how much does 2 attacks benefit us compared to the extra ID probability, and also compared with the number of wounds we need to do.
As a note, going from 4 to 6 attacks is mathematically the same as multiplying the number of wounds caused by 3/2, all else being constant.
And so as long as the smash ID probability is more than 3/2 the regular one, we should smash in order to cause instant death. Case by case and purely in terms of instant death:
vs t6, Prob(ID) = 11/36 vs Prob (Smash ID) = 7/36, so don't smash!
vs t7 and t8, P(ID) = 6/36 vs 7/36, so again don't smash!
vs t9, P(ID) = 6/36 vs 8/36, don't smash!
vs t10, P(ID) = 6/36 vs 9/36, so smashing and not smashing give the same chance for instant death, as (3/2)*(6/36) = (9/36). However in this case you're better off not smashing, as the regular attacks have a higher standard deviation, meaning extreme results (like ID occurring) come up more often
If my opponent is on at least 3 wounds then I would only smash if the opponent was t4/t5- otherwise going for the instakill works out best.
If my opponent is reduced to 2 wounds I would smash, as smashing gives a very high probability of at least 2 wounds caused against targets t9 or less, assuming I hit on 3s.
Factoring in eternal warrior, you then become focussed on doing as many wounds as possible and so smashing becomes preferable once the opponent's toughness hits 6 and about as it increases the raw number of wounds you cause.

tl;dr- With the reaper sword and toxin sacs, only smash if your opponent is t4 or t5; or on 2 wounds and t6+; or is eternal warrior with T6 or higher

Hope that helps! Simon

[daboarder]

I'm not seeing where the full book is on display.

They have the spanish version up, also BoK is leaking info, its all over the forums at this point. where do you think the points cost on the crown and sword came from, dakka thats where

[Anarchyman99]

Good god...why? I'm really sad...my poor bugs nerfed this time bad...just wait Orks...your next -1BS you only shoot friendly models and your choppa's make the enemy one save better in CC. IG Ogryn will be $70 for three and only in unit's of nine...lets just piss on everyone...

[daboarder]

IG will be fine, they are cruddaces illegitimate *****

[n00bzilla99]

Dakka has the full book on display. Along with numerous other sources

According to what I read... the Mawloc gets to do his power a second time if he doesn't kill enough the first time, and if he fails the second time, then he mishaps, which isn't that bad. But Trygons going up in points just baffles me.

[daboarder]

yeah no thanks I'll take the blue pill, it shouldn't be mishaping at all ever, theres no reason for that except incompetent bull**** game design

edit: Oh yeah, and mawlocs don't get the option of regen, guess thats one way to answer the question about whether it can use that in ongoing reserves

[Power Klawz]

so you can only take one tyranid bio-artifact per model right?