Copy Of Tyranid Codex In Hand

[Martyn Powell]

No, it is added to I then modified by cover.

How about for disordered charges? Furious charge and Rage do not count if you engage at least 2 separate units with one of yours...

[Tynskel]

...aaand I lost you. Sorry. Forgot that if you use certain keywords, like spam, some people will use that as an excuse to completely ignore anything and everything you say.



Light transports pretty much means wave serpents now. Which nids are terrible against. No, Hive Guard are not a magical solution. Too short ranged and too low of BS now. They can kill wave serpents, sure, but just because you have a unit doesn't mean you're going to suddenly have an easy game. For one, they're pretty short ranged. Just shoot them before they get close, and they're no longer a threat. Nids will have trouble with competitive Tau and Eldar.












To use more simple terms, most nids come in three flavors, little, medium, and big. Little guys are t3 with no real save. They drop like flies, and as a result tend to run into the horde problem I mentioned earlier. There are the medium ones, t4 with decent saves and multiple wounds, who tend to be pretty expensive and die quickly regardless. And then there are the big ones, which are basically all T6 3+. That is not as impressive as it used to be. It doesnt matter if it's six fexes, or two and some hive tyrants, or exocrines, or trygons, or any combination thereof. You can still only afford so many of them, and most competitive lists can drop them, at range, too quickly to be a very balanced game.

When everything in your army is so relatively easy to drop, it doesn't matter what combination you take them in. You get shot up either way. Nids may have gotten cheaper, which is a buff, but they have not gotten cheap enoug for their relative lack of durability, not enough to be truly competitive. It has nothing to do with spam, it has nothing to do with them being the new op cheese or not, it's only about whether or not you can take them to any given game and have an expectation to not simply get tabled.

If you have a gaming group so casual that you can take genuinely crappy units and your opponents won't actually try to win and just let youget away with playing whatever you want, then great. Good for you. I'd like to see more assault Marines and the like on the table. But that doesn't make those units good. Performing well because your opponent is taking it easy on you, inentionally or not (and there's nothing wrong with doing that, btw), is very different from having an objectively good unit that performs well of its own virtue.

Edit: plus, a lot of nids hit like a wet noodle compared to most good units nowadays. If nids were still brutal in combat, this might be a different story, but now they're just not that impressive.

you didn't lose me. You just didn't say anything that everyone didn't know about. I was just reminding the forum that Spam is not the way to play.

also, I am not sure what kind of crack you are smoking... wave serpants are the only light transport? seriously, the transport that is limited to one army?

[Tynskel]

No, it is added to I then modified by cover.

Well, it is probably a good guess that plenty of units that would use Lashwhips also can get fleshhooks, negating the whole problem.

[Martyn Powell]

Well, it is probably a good guess that plenty of units that would use Lashwhips also can get fleshhooks, negating the whole problem.

Top left of page 22 (big tome of a rulebook) "If a unit has at least 1 model that moves through difficult terrain, the whole unit fights at initiative 1 regardless of modifiers"

So to get to use lash whips you need to take the flesh hooks like you have said.

[Tynskel]

I am just chuckling that people are now talking about using sky slashers...
I have been telling people for years that sky slashers have always been good.

Anyone that has been good with bugs has always known that point n' click bugs are not the best way to play. It has always been about combos.

[citadel]

They're the same as they used to be... but 5pts more expensive... and dropped from BS4 to BS3.

Except now they have flat Ignore Cover, rather than the quasi-ignore cover rule that made them particularly terrifying to vehicles. Not too shabby, really.

[kjolnir]

now, I don't have my main rulebook in front of me.

does the lashwhip 'swiftstrike', which states +3 I in the Fight Sub Phase, override the I1 for charging through cover? Because being a permnament I4 is not bad.

Order of operations is multiply/divide, add/subtract, set value. Since the initiative penalty for running though cover is a set value, it happens after you add the +3 from the whips, making you go at I1.

[kjolnir]

Well, it is probably a good guess that plenty of units that would use Lashwhips also can get fleshhooks, negating the whole problem.

Looks like only warriors and carnifexes get offensive grenades.

***edit***

Shrikes, too.

[DarkLink]

you didn't lose me. You just didn't say anything that everyone didn't know about. I was just reminding the forum that Spam is not the way to play.

also, I am not sure what kind of crack you are smoking... wave serpants are the only light transport? seriously, the transport that is limited to one army?

It's the most common one. Rhinos are a lot more rare than they used to. I see most Marine players relying more heavily on bikes and pods, with the occasional Rhino. But everyone and their mother seems to ally in Eldar with Serpents, so...

Also, DE will still be rough. Fexes are too slow to catch Venoms with brain leech devourers, and most of the other big guns arent that impressive.



It does occur to me, though, that had they kept spore mines and if you could bring in trygons via tunneling turn 1, that would open up a lot of options that could be pretty solid. Huge missed opportunity for gw there.


The problem I have with a lot of the synergy argument is that it relies on making the sum of its parts greater. If you need your synergy just to keep from having half your units eat themselves every turn, that's not synergy, that's a handicap. I don't see much being added with the new book in terms of synergy, just more of the same, but marginally cheaper.

[Tynskel]

It's the most common one. Rhinos are a lot more rare than they used to. I see most Marine players relying more heavily on bikes and pods, with the occasional Rhino. But everyone and their mother seems to ally in Eldar with Serpents, so...

Also, DE will still be rough. Fexes are too slow to catch Venoms with brain leech devourers, and most of the other big guns arent that impressive.



It does occur to me, though, that had they kept spore mines and if you could bring in trygons via tunneling turn 1, that would open up a lot of options that could be pretty solid. Huge missed opportunity for gw there.


The problem I have with a lot of the synergy argument is that it relies on making the sum of its parts greater. If you need your synergy just to keep from having half your units eat themselves every turn, that's not synergy, that's a handicap. I don't see much being added with the new book in terms of synergy, just more of the same, but marginally cheaper.

So far, I see the crutches have been removed from the bugs. I like that. Personally, I never liked the bugs using any of the rulebook powers. It never made sense to me, considering they were blocking out the warp. I see that as the largest crutch of them all.

When it comes to synergies, there were plenty of combinations, if you stuck to the non-rulebook stuff. There seems to be improvements to units that need improvements (like carnifexes and pyrovores, etc.). I like that the sonic screech actually works again (6th Edition messed it up). So the Harpy support factor is good again. Things like sky-slashers, I used all the time. Rarely did people shoot them, and when they did, I didn't care, because they were so inexpensive. However, they hit like a ton of bricks. If they can still have adrenal glands, they are significantly improved.

I never liked the tervigon spam. I thought it was stupid beyond belief.

The real big issue was that I have never had problem with bugs in Campaigns, Pickup games, and Apocalypse. And, what I am seeing here from the pictures of the codex, is an across the board improvement in those 3 game types.