Something old, something new. Something gribbly, to eat you.

[DWest]

Alright, so after dragging out my general-purpose 1500 point list and re-writing it with the new codex, I ended up with the following:
-Gained 11 Termagants
-Lost Mycetic Spore for Dakkafex
-Lost Crushagon (Tervigon + Iron Arm + Crushing Claws . . . good times)
-25 points left to spend

Now, I'm not pretending my list was incredible, and I would definitely modify it if I was going to play the new book; however, I really don't like where I sit now. Whereas before, I could roll up Iron Arm on my Tervigon and she'd singlehandedly take any objective away from anything short of a squad of TH/SS termies, now she feels more like a liability than an asset. I would need to drop or re-think my Genestealers (maybe run them as a couple of fivers just to try to nab objectives?). I understand not everything is going to be good, but they're kinda what drew me to 'nids in the first place, so I'm disappointed that they're junk. I don't like not having the pod-a-fex option to disrupt my opponent, and I could stick a Trygon in there to do the same thing, but not as well. The Prime is also junk as far as I can see, which is again disappointing as I had one converted from a 2ed Hive Tyrant.

In summation, I'm looking at quality decreases, points increases (Hive Guard, Tyranid Prime, and since Tervigons don't share buffs anymore, my Termagants are 8 points a model with toxin sacs and adrenal glands vs. 6 in the old book, and replacements don't even get those buffs), and lost utility. This book is a clear loss for me.

[Kelshin]

Alright, so after dragging out my general-purpose 1500 point list and re-writing it with the new codex, I ended up with the following:
-Gained 11 Termagants
-Lost Mycetic Spore for Dakkafex
-Lost Crushagon (Tervigon + Iron Arm + Crushing Claws . . . good times)
-25 points left to spend

Now, I'm not pretending my list was incredible, and I would definitely modify it if I was going to play the new book; however, I really don't like where I sit now. Whereas before, I could roll up Iron Arm on my Tervigon and she'd singlehandedly take any objective away from anything short of a squad of TH/SS termies, now she feels more like a liability than an asset. I would need to drop or re-think my Genestealers (maybe run them as a couple of fivers just to try to nab objectives?). I understand not everything is going to be good, but they're kinda what drew me to 'nids in the first place, so I'm disappointed that they're junk. I don't like not having the pod-a-fex option to disrupt my opponent, and I could stick a Trygon in there to do the same thing, but not as well. The Prime is also junk as far as I can see, which is again disappointing as I had one converted from a 2ed Hive Tyrant.

In summation, I'm looking at quality decreases, points increases (Hive Guard, Tyranid Prime, and since Tervigons don't share buffs anymore, my Termagants are 8 points a model with toxin sacs and adrenal glands vs. 6 in the old book, and replacements don't even get those buffs), and lost utility. This book is a clear loss for me.

This I think bring up a good point. How important was it for everyone to keep their formerly-gifted biomorphs on their termigants? If they are I think a lot of those freed up points are going to be gone. Are you guys planning on mostly running bare-bones now? I mean, this list basically had a net loss for points.

[citadel]

This I think bring up a good point. How important was it for everyone to keep their formerly-gifted biomorphs on their termigants? If they are I think a lot of those freed up points are going to be gone. Are you guys planning on mostly running bare-bones now? I mean, this list basically had a net loss for points.

I'm bare bones for sure. I can't justify spending 2PPm across 30 gants, but considering we have 20 more than before, do we really need the psn? In any case, I built an 1850 list earlier that would have cost 2070, including the new bugs. Here's my xpost from dakka -

Flyrant w/ 2x TLDevs
Prime

2x VThrope
2x ZThrope

30 Terma
1 Tervi
15 Horma

Crone

3x Carni w/ 2x TLDevs
Exocrine
Malwoc

Left the point totals off since codex not officially released. In all, that's 8 MCs boasting 33 T6 and 5T6 wounds on a 3+ with a marching 5+ Cover save (and 4+ to anything in the back line) with 5 chances to get Catalyst across. Not too shabby. As for troops, I figure out of this I will get at least 4 troops total, possibly 5 if the tervi doesn't double. In any case, it's at least 51 wounds of troop before my first spawn.

[DWest]

I consider poison on Gaunts to be pretty much essential, in order to rack up enough wounds to get them out of a combat. Considering that being locked in combat does *not* keep you from contesting an objective, all you have to do is take something with T5+ and any decent armor save and charge it into the Gaunt pack so that you end up 3" from the objective. The Gaunts pile in and bubble-wrap the enemy model for him; by the end of that round of combat, the enemy model will be surrounded with little bug bases which means I can no longer shoot at it, and as best as I can tell from the assault rules, I can no longer assault that model either (because I can't get the new unit into "base contact" with the enemy). I can't use "our weapons are useless" unless a) the target is T7 *and* I move my Synapse away from the Gaunts (which is quite likely to result in the 30 pack being wiped out by a Sweeping Advance).

So unless I'm wrong about assaulting a wrapped target, no Toxin Sacs = no Gaunts near objectives until I have the enemy units locked down.

[citadel]

I consider poison on Gaunts to be pretty much essential, in order to rack up enough wounds to get them out of a combat. Considering that being locked in combat does *not* keep you from contesting an objective, all you have to do is take something with T5+ and any decent armor save and charge it into the Gaunt pack so that you end up 3" from the objective. The Gaunts pile in and bubble-wrap the enemy model for him; by the end of that round of combat, the enemy model will be surrounded with little bug bases which means I can no longer shoot at it, and as best as I can tell from the assault rules, I can no longer assault that model either (because I can't get the new unit into "base contact" with the enemy). I can't use "our weapons are useless" unless a) the target is T7 *and* I move my Synapse away from the Gaunts (which is quite likely to result in the 30 pack being wiped out by a Sweeping Advance).

So unless I'm wrong about assaulting a wrapped target, no Toxin Sacs = no Gaunts near objectives until I have the enemy units locked down.

In this scenario, right, that would be a strong counter. However, I hope by that time you have recognized the oncoming threat and have adjusted your unit positioning to limit the bubble wrap and still allow your MC to get some swings. He still has to charge the closest model to him, to which you pile in 3". Assuming you have your gants in a screen/line formation, you might get one or two turns before the bubble wrap is 100% complete. Even then, you lose models in combat and he still has to consider 30 overwatch at str4, counter attack, and the ensuing rounds of combat. But yes. If the scenario pans out exactly how you described, it's bone city for the bugs. I still think it's avoidable with positioning though.

[Build]

Not sure if it's relevant, but I was planning on doing a considerable number of articles on nids, from scratch building to conversion work.

Mainly because I some how stumbled on to a ton of GW rejected artwork for nids (everything from rejected zoanthropes, broodlords, tyrants, guard, lictors etc)
Here's an example, no idea why they rejected this Zoanthrope, I think it's epic.

[Mr Mystery]

Ouch! For all the talk of stuff getting cheaper, my general-purpose Prime (LW+BS, Toxin, Adrenal) went from 115 points to . . . 170?!
What.
Arbitrary.
Silliness.


Good thing I picked up a second Hive Tyrant I suppose.

That's the purpose of the thread, to explore the changes to existing lists, whether positive, negative or neutral

[Tyrendian]

my old collection was around 3k points (not gonna list everything since there really isn´t a half decent army list to be built out of it, which is why I kinda abandoned them... I pretty much had none of the models that made 5th Ed. bugs good (like Flyrants or Tervigons), and way too many Genestealers and Warriors instead...)
that now adds up to around 2600pts, with very generous upgrades already sprinkeled in - more than I´d really play once I´ve got the models I want for an army I think
And the only thing that really got a lot worse with the new dex for me is the loss of Biomancy (oh and that Ymgarls are gone completely... too bad that...)
On the other hand, it saves me from "having" to buy multiple Tervigons... one at most for me I think...

[Al Shut]

I don't have any fixed thought out lists but I can see some changes in the likelihood of me take certain units in the occasional casual game.

Worst of is probably the Prime. The main reason why I included him was to have a cheap HQ to free up points for other MCs. But with the points increase and Hive Tyrant, Tyranofex and Carnifex all getting cheaper I doubt I'll use him much.

Pretty much on the fence about the Tyrant guard, the bodyguarding improved, points reduced and my Tyrant sure could use some protection after lusing his 2+ armor but I'm very unhappy with my old finecast models in comparison to the new ones (plus having models on not up to date bases always irks me)

Far less keen on the new Tervigon which increase the chances of my Carnifex showing up even more (as soon as I figured out how to configure him)

I fielded some pretty expensive genestealers (toxin sacs and talons) from time to time but with the price going even higher and the Broodlord loosing his instant death biomorph (glued that Tervigon tongue on his butt for nothing) they will likely go into hibernation for quite some time.

Biovores, Zoanthropes and Venomthropes are likely to be maxed out to three models on a more regular basis.

I always found some sporemines to be fun and will give the new ones a try but can't imagine hving much fun having to get them into close combat at half speed.

[Mr Mystery]

I'm quite liking the new Spore Mine rules.

No more random movement direction is a big plus, even when they're slow. With a bit of saturation, you can turn the battle field into a rather unpleasant place for your opponent. Spesh with them now being deployed in unit coherency rather than base to base.