Something old, something new. Something gribbly, to eat you.

[Mr Mystery]

Remember....it's all about the points costs comparisson so we can look into the actual impact.

For numbers out my bum (for now), where the downsizing has happened, do the gains help to offset? If for instance your regular force is now 400 points cheaper, what would you add?

[Sly]

I never put the minis and made the conversions to start painting, so for me it's more of a change in planned builds, and I love it:

In the prior Codex, I was looking to convert 2-3 Tervigons and associated Gaunts. The problem was that I really did not want to make that many Termies.

Now, I'm probably going to go with a FMC list, 4 FMCs, no Tervies, and 30-40 Devourer Gants plus 1-2 squads of Genestealers. Other things may change, but the main thing is that I'm looking at about 50 Troops bodies rather than around 100, which all of a sudden makes the project look worthwhile rather than "I'll never get to this". I guess for me the Tervigon nerf was a good thing

[DarkLink]

You know, enough of the codex has been leaked that we do know basically all of the points costs and rules. Some stuff is cheaper, some stuff is it, and none of it is a significant enough change to really save nids from the problems that plagued their last codex.

They've probably gotten a little better overall, but not massively so.

[Mr Mystery]

Which is what this thread is about.

Rather than the general force, people's specific armies.

It's purely out of interest!

[citadel]

I am very excited abut this new codex, and although I agree with a few of the points of contention, overall I think the codex will allow a greater variability in lists while maintaining strong competitive potential. I mean, I still can't believe we actually have a Str7 Ap2 Assault6 gun on a T6W6 Gunbeast. That's just awesome.

In my last few lists with our codex, I fielded 7 MCs with venomthropes and ramrodded up the field. It did very well against Eldar/Tau/SM lists in local tourneys and my friend network, partially due to abusing cover mechanics (gotta take what you can get, right?). Now that VThropes give shrouded, FNP applies to the caster AND the nominated unit, and we can onslaught the gunbeast... wow.

My first army/strategy involves the new gunbeast and a squad of 8 genestealers, probably 2 flyrants, malwoc, some charging carnifi (AG/Fleet and D3 S9 HoW hits at I10 step? Yes please), crone, and whatever else I can fit that attracts major target priority.

I have found that the most effective use of the genestealer isn't necessarily the damage it does, but the threat of the GS' potential to do damage. I infiltrate as far as I can in the best cover I can, and as soon as they start taking fire, I Go2Ground to give them the 2+ cover bonus. If ruins, this now means they are flaunting a 2+ cover save. Sure, they could get blown away by flamers if the enemy wants to get CLOSER to the rest of my army, but there are always 4-5 left by the time the rest of my army hits the enemy front line, even when sustaining immense pressure. If a casterbug is close, FNP even. Then, around turns 2/3, everything else is up in their grill, and suddently I have a forward unit of GS ready to grind. Not to mention they are now AP 5 in addition to rending, they are going to chew through troops of other xenos. OFC marines will hold their own, but it's about threat generation.

So, having said all that, we now have a gunbeast with Assault6 Str7 Ap2 that can onslaught to get into middle terrain and a possible venomthrope giving it +2 to the cover. That's a potential 2+5+FNP firing station (re: central anchor) near the middle of the map that your army revolves around. Yes, the enemy has Ignore Cover and will saturate the gunbeast with fire, but that leaves the carni open to get across the field as well as the malwoc in the back line. Add to the fact that everything is cheaper and damn, this really does seem like a super fun codex to run. This is just one strategy that I've thought of, and I'm sure there are plenty, plenty more that will make many of the current detractors reconsider their current positions.

So, overall, I'm pretty excited. I think we received hefty nerfs but in the right places. Take the tervigon nerf for example: if you step back and think about it, 185 points for a T6W6 3+ MC that spawns additional moving/shooting/assaulting troop units, could cast FNP or a BRB power, had a str4ap5a4 gun at 18", gave poison fearless and cattack, str10 for vehicle mop up, large enough to give multiple units cover behind, AND a troop choice (!) is quite overpowered. It made them too good, and it seems that this codex is taking away from the monobuild philosophy.

[Mr Mystery]

Venomthropes are shaping up nicely...providing a cover save boost (Stealth or Shrouded, don't have book, can't confirm as can't be arsed to check the massive thread).

Deploy 'skirmish' line of Termagants/Hormogaunts. Keep a Venomthrope tucked behind something big, out of harms way.

Venomthrope drops some great big flappywoofwoofs, filling the air with smog, and bagging all nearby a really ridiculous cover save for something ultimately just standing out in the open. (either 3+ or 4+, depending on which rule it provides).

Opponent force to really concentrate fire and hope for the best, or try to deal with the skirmish screen first and worry about the big stuff later.

Who needs model specific vulnerable saves when you have the potential to fart your way to victory!

[Browntj007]

Venomthropes are shaping up nicely...providing a cover save boost (Stealth or Shrouded, don't have book, can't confirm as can't be arsed to check the massive thread).

Deploy 'skirmish' line of Termagants/Hormogaunts. Keep a Venomthrope tucked behind something big, out of harms way.

Venomthrope drops some great big flappywoofwoofs, filling the air with smog, and bagging all nearby a really ridiculous cover save for something ultimately just standing out in the open. (either 3+ or 4+, depending on which rule it provides).

Opponent force to really concentrate fire and hope for the best, or try to deal with the skirmish screen first and worry about the big stuff later.

Who needs model specific vulnerable saves when you have the potential to fart your way to victory!

Essentially, we're going back to 5th edition with its 4+ cover save for firing through intervening troops. ( Currently 5+, then add 1 for stealth or shrouded ). The skirmish line assault was a great way of engaging the meatsacks - I had enormous success when combined with trygons popping up behind the lines, 'stealers arriving from flanks, and zoans dropping from the sky next to their precious landraiders. If we could only adapt /evolve the ability to charge from outflanking again for 6th, we'd be in great shape. ( I read in another article spores were NOT removed, as you could load up warriors in one) mmm...tasty

[Chumbalaya]

My Genestealers and Warriors are staying on the shelf, just like last time.

Sigh.

[KrewL RaiN]

My Venomthropes are coming back for sure. I stopped using them when the cover rules changed in 6th.

I am actually thinking of running Lictor's now... I just have to play around a bit.

LOVE the new Adrenal Glads! I might have to add a few to some models...

A Trigon Prime with that special Venom Cannon sounds silly but its my kind of fun. I tend to play with odd lists, even in small events around here.

I was tinkering with a list, and it's nice to be able to squeeze in more gribbles now!

The book itself does feel like a 5.1 version of Tyranids, not a 6.0.


I am also having that problem I have with making my Daemon lists... you want so many killy shiny guys that its hard to squeeze a chunk of Troops in! It always ends up as a Tervigon and 30 Termagants...

[DWest]

Ouch! For all the talk of stuff getting cheaper, my general-purpose Prime (LW+BS, Toxin, Adrenal) went from 115 points to . . . 170?!
What.
Arbitrary.
Silliness.

Good thing I picked up a second Hive Tyrant I suppose.