When kickstarters go wrong,

[lattd]

The open letter is so bad it's funny, it's just pathetic, I know we don't know the full story but things like files and breaking apart a model are relatively easy standard processes in this business any competent cad designer should be able to do....

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

The letter didnt at all address why Defiance are still keeping her money..

It also seems another person has had a bad experience with Defiance : [url]http://wargameterrain.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/proxie-models-defiance-games-warning.html[/url]

Personally, I think ill avoid that company and anything related to it like the plague.

[Bigred]

And here is the issue with Kickstarter - you really can't tell the difference between malfeasance and simple inability - especially with 3rd-party company interactions.

When a project fails - its a really sticky area between did they intend to take people's money in the first place, or did they just valiantly wade into deep waters without a snorkel?

It gets stickier as people who aim to steal will always have a quiver full of perfectly reasonable excuses about why they couldn't deliver.

[GrauGeist]

And between this and the debacle of Heroquest 25, we see why I'm really, really wary of Kickstarters.

I know these are the exception to the rule, but even so, too high a risk for little old me.

In general, when deciding whether to back, you should ask yourself one key question:
1. What is the likelihood they will deliver?

Which explodes into a series of sub-questions:
- did they incorporate as an actual company (CMoN, Soda Pop, SJG, Prodoss), or are is it still a personal project (Alyssa)?
- are the principals reliable & trustworthy (Adam Poots, Mark Mondragon), or shady and scummy (Romeo Filip, Defiance)?
- do they have IP rights (CMoN), or not (HeroQuest25)?
- have they done any production before (Kingdom Death), or not (Alyssa)?
- how organized are they (how the KS is run is a good indication)?
- do they have a plan (Zombicide, Journey, Kingdom Death), or make it up as they go along (Ogre, Relic Knights)?

If you're satisfied that the company is on the up-and-up, knows what the business, and can make it happen, go ahead and throw some money in the jar, considering what you can afford to tie up until they deliver, or lose if they don't.

[GrauGeist]

It gets stickier as people who aim to steal will always have a quiver full of perfectly reasonable excuses about why they couldn't deliver.

Except, the liar and thief at Defiance doesn't even have a halfway decent excuse.

[Mr Mystery]

Just too many variables for my tastes.

I may sound a smidge paranoid, but working where I work, I like to know any cash investments are covered by regulation, so should things go belly up there is some come back. It might not involve a refund, but knowing someone has my back, and can ensure suitable punishment/sanctions are imposed on the guilty party helps to settle my nerves

For now, I'll stick with more regular investments. Next few months will see me able to invest around £100 a month in nest eggs. Sad to say Kickstarters won't be benefitting.

[wittdooley]

Wild West Exodus delivered on time and quite possibly of higher quality than any other miniature game Kickstarter that has existed. So I'd say Romeo has availed himself just fine.

[wittdooley]

And honestly, including Romeo in the same breath as the Defiance people is incredibly irresponsible.

[Christopher Valera]

So a successful kickstarter has been plummeted into chaos because of trouble with their manufacturing company. For the full story here it is:
[URL="http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/alyssafaden/torn-armor/posts"]Torn Armor Update[/URL]

What is most frustrating about this not that I have backed, which I haven't but members of my group have. Also its sad when a great idea is damaged by third party issues.

Update: this is getting catty and interesting [URL="https://www.facebook.com/DefianceGames"]Defiance Games replied on Facebook[/URL]

After a little digging seems defiance are more than likely in the wrong, as it appears defiance have taken products and agreed deals without paying etc

I hate Defiance Games so much, they're clearly the bottom-feeders of the industry. They could take out a loan to return the funds. Natalya should get a lawyer.

--Chris
@chrisvalera
[url]www.chrisvalera.com[/url]

[Asymmetrical Xeno]

Just too many variables for my tastes.

I may sound a smidge paranoid, but working where I work, I like to know any cash investments are covered by regulation, so should things go belly up there is some come back. It might not involve a refund, but knowing someone has my back, and can ensure suitable punishment/sanctions are imposed on the guilty party helps to settle my nerves

For now, I'll stick with more regular investments. Next few months will see me able to invest around £100 a month in nest eggs. Sad to say Kickstarters won't be benefitting.

I don't think it's a bad thing to be a bit paranoid though. This is also partly why I will personally never do a kickstarter myself. Like quite a few people who run a KS , I am very inexperienced with running a business and I'd personally much rather save up my own money and fund my project out of my own pocket (which I can do, it will take longer but that's what id rather do myself), than risk the pockets of other people - not having a go at anyone at all, but that's my personal position on it. I do hope that woman can get her money back and find a solution to this - it seems her backers are being very supportive though which is nice to see.