Are netlists an issue?

[Mr Mystery]

Afternoon folks!

So. Netlists. Some people love them, some people loathe them, and some people aren't at all fussed.

But are they actually a problem?

To me, they have upsides and downsides. Upsides, they can give an insight into how a given army might work on the battlefield, which is pretty invaluable to new comers. They also tend to involve a minimum of conversions to field, with a couple of exceptions (like Jetbike mounted Seer Councils). For people on a tight budget, they enable you to assemble a force with minimal cost wastage.

Downsides? Typical issue of received wisdom. Just because someone says a given list is good, doesn't mean a great deal in the grand scheme of things, and can lead to some units being maligned for little good reason (though this is not universal. Some units really are just a bit duff). And another one...it sets a certain entry level. 40k can be played at pretty much any points value of 500 upwards, but Netlists can help to create an image that a given points limit is the actual practical minimum. This can potentially lead to some feeling locked out by price when it's not necessarily true.

So how do you feel about them? Are they a necessary part of the game, are they an abomination unto Nuggan*



*Nuggan is a God from Terry Pratchett's Discworld. For more info, go read Monstrous Regiment

[Bob821]

I say let people enjoy there hobby as they see fit. Part of the fun for me is pooring over my codex and developing a list over a few battles but that does not mean every one should do the same.

[jifel]

It lets people recognize good units. It also helps people recognize what they could play against and counter it. It's definitely Neutral.

[Lukas The Trickster]

Not fussed really, although there's nothing as boring as a netlists bore, particularly the ones who invite others opinions and then take offence when they are given

[Lord Byte]

They still need to be able to play, and many who just take the latest FOTM list lack that, so only the good players are still a challenge

[Baneblade]

They break the spirit of the game. It creates mismatched games. If you want to play tournament style go to tournaments otherwise use a different lists for pick up games.

[harveydent]

If you don't care at all about a stable tournament environment, and you don't mind that some games of 40k/whfb end up being a waste of time and unenjoyable, then whatever - it's just a book with some guidelines for pushing models around.

But if you want a truly competitive tournament environment, and one that naturally brings problems with the game's design and development to light so that they can be corrected, repetition (army list copying) is a necessity. The end result of this initial clumping (list copying and repetition) is that the tournament environment will diversify, either due to the game's designers making direct (or indirect) changes to the system or its codices, or due to players recognizing flaws in the bulk of the lists being played and exploiting those flaws with their own army lists.

[Deadlift]

Does the "net list" even exist anymore ?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

I suspect it does; the furious rate of recent releases might have gone some way to nullifying it, though. The metagame isn't static enough for the usual standard net lists to rise to the top.

[DarkLink]

Netlist is just a quasi-political buzzword. Taking a Seer Council does not make a netlist, it just means you're taking a particular unit that's generally overpowered due to a rules exploit. I've never actually seen anyone do Khan+CM on bike+6x5 Grav gun bikes, though I have seen plenty of bike-heavy armies lately.

Really, it's a misnomer. It's not netlists that are a problem, it's netunits/combos. GW does a terrible job at catching poorly written rules, and so we get units like 2 Farseers+the Baron+10 Warlocks on bikes. But as much as the internet complains about netlists, there really aren't any actual netlists that people actually play to complain about. There are problem units, and there are problem combos (that mainly arise from either specific pieces of wargear like the Grimnoire, or from the fact that Battle Brothers even exist), but not really any lists per se.