New tactics for Warlocks : my questions need answers, or at least opinions

[Da Gargoyle]

So, Warlocks in particular were a huge let down for me in regards to the new codex. Your access to them was limited by the fact that you now bought a council and then assigned them to units which limits the actual size of the council you could field. Even worse, there was no trade off because you could not roll for powers and then assign to units, it was vice-versa. Not so good if you wanted to support troops, wraithguard and artillery and have a Council. At the same time you now roll to manifest your power making them the riskiest psycher in the business and the Warlocks really still do not add anything else to a unit. So what is the point?

Well I started putting them on bikes and suddenly realised I had a killer anti tank unit, capable of now throwing a spanner in the works with maladictions on targets your other units were about to hit. So think about your basic artillery unit pasting a unit that has just had Horrify cursed on it. The odds of even a SM unit running goes up at 25% shooting casualties with -3 leadership modifier. The same could apply with that Banshee mask for War Cry. Yes I know, I shelved my Banshees too. But my Autarch now has a Banshee mask and a RoG weapon.

The way I see it, rolling for psych in a group of Warlocks gives you a better than even chance of getting usefull powers. I did a couple of play tests with 3 Warlocks on bikes. I rolled over the two games, Destructor, Embolden, Enhance & Empower. They did alright and scared the fre-holies out of IG armour.

I am now listing a 750 point force for a tournament and have two options. The 3dar bike sqd to escort a Serpent loaded with Wraithguard. Or in an alternate list a 4dar foot team to support a Wraithlord, Storm & Defender Guardians. If I get Destructor for that unit, it can be used to keep the Wraithlord alive by adding wounds from the Renewer blessing.

So instead of one Warlock per squad, there can be a roaming coven. I could also add the Warlord to the coven which in this case will be a Spiritseer. I am not used to psychics and now I am determined to get up to speed.

What say Ye ?

[Master of Asgard]

Hiya, if I understand this right you're talking about a Jetseer Council. It's already fairly well documented and larger councils are considered one of the most powerful/cheesy deathstar units in the Eldar Codex, especially combining allied Baron Sathonyx to give the whole unit Hit and Run. Also, I wasn't quite sure what you meant at the end there, but a Spiritseer can't take a jetbike, so he's not going to be very useful joining your jetbike Council.
I've been thinking of including them in my list as well, maybe just a small unit of foot for fluff reasons, so it's good to hear that even a small unit of 3 is effective. Might try running my 4 in a Wave Serpent, because the models I have aren't really compatible with jetbikes.

[Dave Mcturk]

loving the concept of jetlocks... but using the full whack is so much dependent on getting decent farseer [random !] powers and you definitely need the shard on one farseer to get them fearless !... however running two farseers and mb the baron makes it a real point sink.

at lower points games ive been using a four man bike squad as tankhunters give them spears and dont even bother much with their own powers... i mean ld8 is like almost russian roulette !... amazing how GW can give nidz such good powers at ld 10 and the new-dar get bombed... overall though cannot complain as they have so many other uses ....

[Da Gargoyle]

Spiritseer can't take a jetbike, so he's not going to be very useful joining your jetbike Council.

I had not actually checked to see if the Spiritseer could be mounted on a bike, but what I meant was he would join the 4dar foot coven. It means there is less mobility but they would move as fast as the Wraithlord.

You're right about the councils being prominent in the past but I never thought of a council operating as a unit beyond the jet bike squad. I can actually field five at the moment using converted Elven cavalry figures. That was because the Warlocks could only use their innate psychic abilities on themselves or the unit they were a part of. This is still true for most of the blessings, but now they can project maledictions, the roll can change and become more offensive. My other thought was, in the footlocks version, they can not only support units psychically, but they can be a counter attack unit on those that assault the primary unit.

jetlocks

. love that one, I'm using that in the future.

P.S. Huge points sink but you could give the Spiritseer or Farseer for that matter, Falchu's Wing and take the micky sprinting across the battle field along side the bikes. That would be funny to see on the table.

[stuciferthemighty]

Spiritseers can't take bikes. pg 95.

Also, I'm trying to figure out how to use these guys. I love them, but I don't want to put them on bikes quite yet (for modeling reasons). The fact that they *must* be split up after rolling Warlord Traits (so before psychic powers, yeah?) makes me hesitant to ever split them up, so they can at least all buff each other.
.... Okay I just looked it up, and the book says "before either player deploys" you generate psychic abilites. So basically, if you roll psychic powers BEFORE rolling Warlord traits, you can split them up however you like.

[John Bower]

Was going to say, you do psykers before deployment before the 1st turn. so can do powers before you assign them to squads surely. What's the squad size limit on Seers these days? It don't affect me see, I only run 5 as that's all I have.

[Da Gargoyle]

A council can take a maximum of 10 which I suppose is plenty, especially for small forces. I was being petulant before. I just did a trial run with the 750 point force using Jetlocks against Smurfs. They forced a unit of jump troops to run using the TL Catapults in their first turn and then followed the serpent into the enemy deployment zone. Their most valuable psych power was the Embolden/Horrify which imposes a -3 modifier on Leadership making marines run from shooting casualties. They hung in there and took out a pred anihilatior and W/wind. And, unusually I got lucky with the singing spears in combat with 2 marines failing their save. It was a 3 way with jump troops assaulting the serpent and Jetlocks.

Beware of indirect fire, especially with big pie plates, my guardian units took a hiding in two turns before I could kill the 2 w/winds. No armour or cover because the fall of shot is from above, not ahead.

p.s. I failed about a between 35 & 40% of my psych rolls for the locks but never suffered perils.

[Dave Mcturk]

the newdar codex gives lots of options with locks...

the only thing i miss is being able to run 20 on foot with dz flamer and spears as standard !

[Angelofblades]

Hiya, if I understand this right you're talking about a Jetseer Council. It's already fairly well documented and larger councils are considered one of the most powerful/cheesy deathstar units in the Eldar Codex, especially combining allied Baron Sathonyx to give the whole unit Hit and Run. Also, I wasn't quite sure what you meant at the end there, but a Spiritseer can't take a jetbike, so he's not going to be very useful joining your jetbike Council.
I've been thinking of including them in my list as well, maybe just a small unit of foot for fluff reasons, so it's good to hear that even a small unit of 3 is effective. Might try running my 4 in a Wave Serpent, because the models I have aren't really compatible with jetbikes.

I wouldn't really call a pure Jetseer council a death star. Yeah it does cost quite alot of points and a pretty penny, but it lacks a certain punch that most Death Stars have - the ability to rip through infantry. They have no AP3 or AP 2 weapons in CC and lack attacks. Sure they can wound MC's and rip apart tanks, but you can tie them down in combat quite indefinitely.

What makes them gross is the addition of a single DE character. The Baron. He gives the unit 2 of the most essential bits that make it gross. a 2+ invul save and Hit and Run. Hit and Run is really what makes the Deathstar out of it - because you can't pin it down in cc. A 2++ wouldn't be so bad if you could just tie it up in CC and keep it from doing **** the rest of the game.

[Dave Mcturk]

fairly sure warlocks can no longer have a dedicated transport...

but they definitely dont want to be on foot !