Off-Topic III: The Revengening!

[Mr Mystery]

I really do loathe UKIP. It's like the Daily Mail has somehow made flesh it's entirely dreamt up Britain

And unfortunately they've hit their stride at just the wrong time for the Tories. They're taking away the more unbalanced Tory base (hurrah!), at the same time the Tories are alienting their less committed voters, let alone floating voters.

Still. At least Mr Gove is being kept out of trouble. Nasty little toad that he is.

Other trouble? I personally have done fairly well out of the current Goverment, which is probably the first time that's ever happened. Higher tax threshold has seen a few extra quid in my pocket, which is nice, but most of it has been off my own back (better and better jobs, career well under way etc). Yet I can also look back, and know as well as I'm doing right now it can all too easily be lost, and the safety mat that was once there has been swapped for a bed of nails. And that genuinely scares me.

One concept about housing - why are council houses 'yours for life'. Surely that discourages people trying to develop themselves and their careers? After all, whether or not you're receiving housing benefit, council and housing assosciation houses are dead cheap. Like, fraction of private rental cheap. So stick a review cap on it. Say something like 5 years - you can achieve a lot in 5 years. Then if like me you've turned yourself around and now more than capable of standing on your own two feet, off into the private market you go. If not, or you're genuinely incapable of work (disability etc) you get another 5 years in it.

Welfare should be providing a safety net, not a cost bolthole.

[eldargal]

Actually recent experiences in several US cities and states have found raising the minimum wage boosts employment and productivity along with many other positive flow on effects, rather than the previously accepted wisdom that it hurts jobs.

[Wolfshade]

Since I have been in work I have been better off with each sucessive government. In terms of pure tax purposes, the increased personal tax allowance has out weighed any other costs that I have incurred, rises in fuel duty, VAT and alchol duty.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually recent experiences in several US cities and states have found raising the minimum wage boosts employment and productivity along with many other positive flow on effects, rather than the previously accepted wisdom that it hurts jobs.

The key takeaways from the CBO report: Gradually raising the federal minimum wage to $10.10 from $7.25 would boost the incomes of most low-wage workers and lift 900,000 out of poverty. But it could also result in the loss of 500,000 jobs.

I am sure those 0.5 million will enjoy there new found unemployement and that additional spending power they enjoy...

[Mr Mystery]

Minimum Wage should be raised by increments I agree, as you can't really expect any business to suddenly go from say £3.50 an hour to £7.00 an hour. Many would collapse under that weight.

Just needs to stay ahead of inflation. And whilst raising that, either make smaller cuts to benefit amounts, or freeze them. Eventually you'll pass the equilibrium point (where you're no better off either way), and be better off in work. Lovely for all involved.

Also - FFS, free childcare. Cost of it is outrageous, and keeps many parents who are more than willing to work at home. Make childcare free, get a bit of early edumacation into the sprogs (so reading etc becomes normal before they know what normal is!) and everyone in society wins.

[eldargal]

Yes some big report or other was contradicted by the actual experiences of several places in the US. Apparently the authors were very cranky.

[Mr Mystery]

One thing is for sure - 'trickle down' economics was a load of bunkum from the outset.

And seriously, just how much money do the super rich want to acquire? I get that it's nice being filthy stinking rich, who wouldn't like that. But when you're sat on billions upon billions of dollars - what's the point? What more can you buy that you couldn't last year? What good is that money being held onto?

[Wolfshade]

First of all we need to understand that the US is not the UK and the economies are different.

After all their waiting staff still needing tips to surivie and the american minimum wage hasn't moved in 5 years and is significantly lower than the UK one.

The 13 states, with faster growth rates that are "owing to increase minimum wages" is only 0.2% quicker, not exactly ground breaking

Though compare that to the state with teh highest growth rate, North Dakota, it has had no minimum wage increase.

So i think it is far too early to determine the overall net effect.

[eldargal]

One thing is for sure - 'trickle down' economics was a load of bunkum from the outset.

And seriously, just how much money do the super rich want to acquire? I get that it's nice being filthy stinking rich, who wouldn't like that. But when you're sat on billions upon billions of dollars - what's the point? What more can you buy that you couldn't last year? What good is that money being held onto?

Yup, the flow on effects from the US were much more convincing. Workers had more money, they were spending more on all the things, other businesses benefited, offsetting their own increased costs and increasing profit, often necessitating more workers being employed. It used to be the basis of capitalism actually, you pay the highest wages your business could justify, not try and squeeze them to the lowest possible.

[Mr Mystery]

Looking at the other side of that - have states that upped the minimum wage all in stronger than average growth? Or is it just some?

I don't know, as I don't know where you guy are getting your figures from!

And I do agree - UK is different. Our minimum wage is getting there, slowly but surely. Worst thing we could do would be to follow what some of UKIP want and scrap it. That serves absolutely not purpose!

[Wolfshade]

My figures are based on the average of the 13 states vs the remaining 33?

I think that it is too early adn too simplistic to say X or Y.

As the North Dakota outlier shows is that if you have a strong economy you increase growth rates.

It is a bit like including London figures in UK figures. London never actually hit rescession like the rest of the country did and the growth rates are always higher.

here are teh figures, it is hardly convincing, given the lowest rate also raised it's minum wage