Balancing Fortifications, Str D weapons and Super-Heavy Vehicles.

[Grey Mage]

Balancing D-weapons is a really, really simple thing to do from a rules perspective, and was talked about during the playtesting of the initial apocalypse release.

1) D-weapons auto-wound and auto-penetrate.
2) They auto-explode.
3) They count as St 12 for the purposes of instant death.
4) They dont:
-Ignore cover. Though this rule could be combined on certain weapons.
-Ignore invulnerable saves. Though this rule could be combined on certain weapons *mostly vortex*
-Cause instant death, though this wouldnt be an uncommon addition.
-Do multiple wounds. Though this could, and likely should, be combined on certain weapons as an alternative to ID.
-Cause multiple hull points of damage normally, though this could be combined on certain weapons.

GWs response:
No, we want them to kill harder and make the game go faster.

Playtesters:
Are you sure?

GW:
Shut up, the books coming out now.

Years of feedback showed the playtesters to be correct. GWs response? Make them ignore invulnerable saves, but give a 1-in-6 chance of not killing infantry, thatll keep people from using them on infantry.

Players: Haha, yeah right.


As for superheavies: Bring back immunity to non-strength-to-damage psychic powers and special abilities unless they specifically state otherwise would be a good start.

As would bringing back poisoning only on a 6+ for GCs and haywire glancing on a 5/pen on a 6 for SHVs.

Otherwise SHVs arent bad for their price, nor are they excessively good- if people complain about them, it tends to be the D-weapons, as noted above.

As for fortifications... no explodes result would be the simplest solution to everyones problem, as then they wouldnt care about D-weapons and would slowly degrade over time, as the now-dead gods intended.

[The Imperial Fist]

My problem with D weapons in normal 40k is that some armies can't take them, and the normal counters to them that come with apocalypse aren't available. As IF's can't take IG Baneblades, the only D Weapon choices for us are a £400 flyer or the A15 Fortifications. Whereas in Apocalypse, that wouldn't necessarily be such a big issue. If I knew D Weapons were coming my way you could be damn sure Lysander and 15 of his home boys would be deepstriking in with a little grenade of death, and probably a Librarius covern too. But you can't take those things in Escalation, so a D Weapon for me means bye bye Hammernators of death followed by bye bye Tactical Squads.

[Gleipnir]

Imperial Fist can take a Shadowsword as primary detachment and select a HQ/Troop option for IG. with Space Marines as the allies

I don't think any army is totally lacking in a method of getting D weapons because of allies rules save Tyranids. Who only have the Aquila Strongpoint as a non fluffy D weapon option available to them.

Plus the Titans are available to Space Marines as LoW options as well

[The Imperial Fist]

Yeah, but that's not taking it as a C:SM choice, that's taking it as a IG choice and getting yourself limited to allies limitations for the IF. Not really a big fan of allies at all really, except perhaps for taking a couple of BT squads when I want a Sons of Dorn crusader army.

Titans are true, but suffer the same problem as a thunderhawk - several hundred pound price tag. It's not the lack of LoW choices that I find annoying - still have Fellblades and the big Spartan Land Raider/Vindicator thing, I just personally think D Weapons are far too much for a normal 40k game, most of which involve using Troops to secure objectives. Normal LoWs, sure, happy to go up against, you want to spend that many points on one model, good for you. But when it can then take expensive points models off with no form of save, no thank you.

[Gleipnir]

well keep in mind most D weapons still have a blast profile or deal their damage to closest model first in a unit per shooting attacks unless they follow the barrage rules(so you can always bury the important models in the back, plus in a game where your opponent uses one and you don't you are getting VP awards for damaging it, potentially leaving him with no choice but to table you to win if you have a sizeable unit size force able to hurt his LoW.

agree that D weapons really overpower a single FOC game though, especially when you are permitting one type of previously apocalypse only unit but restricting every other apocalypse formation that might be potentially used to counter it.