Chaos players and Knights!

[daboarder]

As I understand it, the Primarch Daemon Princes from several if not most of the main traitor legions, when they got back to the Eye of Terror, took over a planet for their HQ. Also to replace their founding worlds which Rogal Dorn/Roboute were clearly visiting great doom upon.

As such, I have always considered that the forces from those worlds represent the exisitng Chaos Legions, even if in warband strength.

This^ Of course the traitors still include legionnaires from the original heresy

One caveat though, the legions typically burned their own homeworlds during the start of the heresy

[Tyrendian]

There is NO logical reason for GW not to make chaos legion rules, there is no logical reason for GW not to give chaos players access to chaos knights

how about the simple factor of Time? I know this is exactly the kind of "they are coming bull****" you mentioned - and I'm not saying that's not a valid point, even as a non-Chaos player I do feel your pain!
But as of now, GW are releasing new stuff at a simply staggering rate (basically an overhaul of an army per month, try to compare that to PP for instance... the argument may be made that PP do use that time to make plainly "better" rules... but that's more or less beside my point), and the guys in the Design Studio are all mere humans (as evidenced by their fallacies...) and as such, we can't really expect them to work 20h a day just to give us more plastic (or in this case paper) crack. Producing the Supplements takes time - there may not be a lot of rules in them, but there's an awful lot of fluff, that's for sure, and the presentation and physical quality of it all is certainly among the best in the industry (again comparing to PP, GW publishes what? five to six times more codex-equivalent books a year?). And I'm not sure Chaos players as a whole would be all that much happier were GW to publish half-***ed bad-quality mini-supplements for all the Legions, some maybe so badly thought out that they were completely broken either way.
And there have not exactly been many Imperial supplements either... one for you and one for ImpFists, with the Black Legion one at least making half a stir on the Tables, what with that amusing Nova artifact and Chaos needing the extra HQ and Fast Attack slot more than your typical marine list, so arguably rules-wise yours is kinda better there... May not be exactly what you were hoping for since the Black Legion feeling to the army list is rather limited, but did the Sentinels of Terra one even change anything about that? *honestly don't know - just didn't see that one making much of a stir...*

As to Knights, no I don't get that one either... probably just convert an epic Chaos Knight and play with the right people... that's one of the main joys of playing Chaos anyway isn't it? epic conversions etc... Definitely much better than an Eldar army having a bog-standard Imperial Knight casually strolling up in their ranks because "the rules say so"...

[lattd]

One the rule of cool is in the book so feel free to convert the knight into a chaos version.
Second imperial players didn't bemoan chaos when they got a super heavy with similar equipment to the knight last year.
Finally this is one week of release we haven't confirmed what the codex allies will allow we had a rumour! And the rumours are pointing that the rest of the month is chaos so please it has become chaos whine now I get it your upset but it's been nearly 2 years! You don't see black Templars moaning this much and they got shoved into another book, even tyranid players don't moan this much!

[Learn2Eel]

One the rule of cool is in the book so feel free to convert the knight into a chaos version.
Second imperial players didn't bemoan chaos when they got a super heavy with similar equipment to the knight last year.
Finally this is one week of release we haven't confirmed what the codex allies will allow we had a rumour! And the rumours are pointing that the rest of the month is chaos so please it has become chaos whine now I get it your upset but it's been nearly 2 years! You don't see black Templars moaning this much and they got shoved into another book, even tyranid players don't moan this much!

The Lord of Skulls gives Chaos players their own unique super heavy alongside the four Exalted Greater Daemons so that they didn't have to use "Chaos versions" of all the Imperial super-heavies.
As far as the Knight is concerned, however, Knights do turn traitor so it makes sense that Chaos Space Marines (but perhaps not Daemons) should be able to access them.

Personally I don't even touch my Chaos Space Marines anymore and I'm not going to get into all the other hot topics regarding them. However, it seems silly to me that Traitors can't take a Knight when everything in the fluff says they can. This is a big centre-piece model that could be used to great effect by an ailing codex/player-base, but Xenos get it instead?

[daboarder]

Templars also didnt have half their unique units ripped out to market a new book

[Learn2Eel]

Actually, that's something I want to touch on more. If I wrote a Chaos Space Marine Codex, I would very clearly distinguish Traitor Legionnaires from Renegades. Renegades would effectively be Loyalists minus the newest stuff (i.e. Centurions) and exchange ATSKNF for lower costs, but still retain a Chapter Tactic equivalent. Legionnaires would have restricted use to the newer stuff, but would get Legion-specific units such as increased Daemonic/Dark Mechanicum support depending on their alignment/allegiance. Thousand Sons wouldn't get stuff like Land Raider Crusaders or Warp Talons, but they would get Sorcerer Covens and Rubric Marine equivalents for all the generic Chaos infantry units. Their Legion Tactic can be that they can re-roll failed psychic tests and have a 5+ save against Perils of the Warp, while their status as Legionnaires would make them Fearless. Red Corsairs, on the other hand, would get all the newer stuff, but wouldn't be able to take the more exotic Daemons/daemonic engines. Their Chapter Tactic could be something like re-rolling failed reserve rolls and giving Outflank to Biker units, while they have the standard cheaper infantry to compensate for loss of ATSKNF. That would be a great codex IMO as it would clearly distinguish Renegade from Legionnaire.

[lattd]

And there is the problem it's not so much GW hate chaos it's the hardest balancing act in the game! You need to balance the renegades and the legions. You either go two books and have a really rubbish renegades book which is just codex marines light and legions which would be very popular. But then we have another marine book and everyone is unhappy.

[Sly]

1. I would need to see systematic evidence of the deck being stacked against them at all times, rather than several instances of Chaos suffering from GW's uneven and sloppy release schedule and rules creation.

The CSM book has as few or fewer deployment options than any other book, while SM has more than any other book.
The CSM book has fewer transport options than any other MEQ Codex, and just as many as SoB, which are a half-Codex.

The result of these two issues is that most CSM armies and/or detachments all look the same, and all deploy the same. It gets repetitive.

SM has more deployment options than any other book, and more transport options. The result is that SM armies have the most varied viable builds in the game.

Is there really any reason why SM SHOULD have so many more options in skills available (Scout, Outflank, Infiltrate) or in transports (3 Land Raiders, Razorback, LS Storm) or in troops (Bikes) while Chaos has no warbands that use any transports other than basic LRs and Rhinos, or enough Jump or Bike units to consider them as Troops? Conceptually, no. Fluff reasons, no. Balance reasons, no.

What reasons are left? Whatever they are, they can be quite accurately summed up as: "Because F**k Chaos". I'm sure that's not the REAL reason, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and can be cooked to make Peking Duck... I don't really care if it has a different scientific name.

GW treats CSM like a red headed stepchild with spikes, and feels that we should be glad to have the most modelling and converting opportunities (with Orks the only real competition), and we shouldn't bother complaining that we have Codices designed with limited imagination, and we should have a beer and a pretzel and shut up. Because, you know, F**k Chaos.

[jifel]

At least Tyranid players knew they wouldn't get knights from the get-go... Sadly, I'm a Nids AND chaos player, an I was ready to buy like 3 of these things. Now? I either have to play my IW as loyalists (ew) or just admit that I can't have knights. Darn it GW.

[Cactus]

Well, you can buy 5 Knights and have a new army, good news, right?