New Helbrutes and Crimson Slaughter Codex

[Slinkyskink]

You're absolutely right.

If GW could hire a competent PR rep or community organizer or something, that person could do A LOT when it comes to quelling the rage within us all.

They probably wouldn't be able to answer questions about pricing (which is probably why GW just doesn't bother, since they figure a PR rep would just be bombarded with complaints about price increases) but if they could just EXPLAIN why GW is going in this direction, or make little hints of what's down the pipe, instead of keeping us totally in the dark. A PR rep could come out and say 'Don't worry Chaos Marine folks! You're getting the Helbrute and here's why!', that would go a long way, because then we'd at least have an idea of what GW is thinking.

I'm usually a glass half-full kinda guy.... But the silence from GW is pretty damning.

[Charon]

You're absolutely right.

If GW could hire a competent PR rep or community organizer or something, that person could do A LOT when it comes to quelling the rage within us all.

They probably wouldn't be able to answer questions about pricing (which is probably why GW just doesn't bother, since they figure a PR rep would just be bombarded with complaints about price increases) but if they could just EXPLAIN why GW is going in this direction, or make little hints of what's down the pipe, instead of keeping us totally in the dark. A PR rep could come out and say 'Don't worry Chaos Marine folks! You're getting the Helbrute and here's why!', that would go a long way, because then we'd at least have an idea of what GW is thinking.

Thats pretty much why every video game has community reps. They may not be allowed (or can) answer all questions, but at LEAST they can tell you "We heard your concerns and we will discuss this stuff" or even "sorry our data implicates that actually most ppl like this unit". Also a single "ok guys our superheavies are not quite selling as we expected. What could we do to make these pretty models more appealing to you" would be like a the holy grail of customer interaction. Sadly they chose to keep eyes, ears and mouth shut.

[Katharon]

You're absolutely right.

If GW could hire a competent PR rep or community organizer or something, that person could do A LOT when it comes to quelling the rage within us all.

They probably wouldn't be able to answer questions about pricing (which is probably why GW just doesn't bother, since they figure a PR rep would just be bombarded with complaints about price increases) but if they could just EXPLAIN why GW is going in this direction, or make little hints of what's down the pipe, instead of keeping us totally in the dark. A PR rep could come out and say 'Don't worry Chaos Marine folks! You're getting the Helbrute and here's why!', that would go a long way, because then we'd at least have an idea of what GW is thinking.

Pretty much what I've been saying. It's a public company that has a very social game as its product -- and yet it doesn't make an effort to effectively communicate with us beyond email blurps? *sigh*

It's also a little overpriced, if it comes with just a multimelta.

Just make Crazed a choice. You can choose between Fleet/Rage, Double Shots, or IWND.

Except that with the rules written as I have them for the Crazed, if you lose two wounds and get two Crazed markers -- you then get to roll twice on the chart. I'm thinking it might even let you fire more shots for choice 1 and potentially roll a second IWND for 2. I'll need to wrangle it a little.

The price is so high because of the fact that I gave it a Daemon Invul. Otherwise, the price would be lower.

[daboarder]

Personally I'd love to see the Pts cost of the hellbrute dropped to account for the "crazed rules" and an additional option to turn it into say an "infernal engine" which for an appropriate cost gave it access to the daemon engine suite of rules. so, IWND, Daemon Forged and Daemon. Would be a good "mirror" for the loyalists access to Venerables and would properly reflect what happens to a dreadnought soaked in the warp.

As to dreadnoughts as a whole, I think both the loyalist and Chaos version need their weapons loadouts expanded to change them from just "gun carriages" to "relics" give them access toe the old heresy style weaponry such as say, Grav cannons, Conversion beamers, Volkite something or others. And daemonic equivalents such as the "Soulburner petard etc" Don't make these parable optiosn and suddenly there could be a reason to take a dread, access to exotic weaponry thats not man portable but is to sacred to stick on a tank.

[Kawauso]

Those Helbrute rules are a neat idea but...
Shouldn't it be a 2+ save if you're making it an MC?
Terminators wear tactical -dreadnought- armour, after all.

Anyway, the new model is...really nice. I'm thinking down the line I'll be adding a bigger Oracles of Change component to my Thousand Sons army (I just can't see the 'mutated' chaos look with 1K Sons).

[DarkLink]

Except that with the rules written as I have them for the Crazed, if you lose two wounds and get two Crazed markers -- you then get to roll twice on the chart. I'm thinking it might even let you fire more shots for choice 1 and potentially roll a second IWND for 2. I'll need to wrangle it a little.

The price is so high because of the fact that I gave it a Daemon Invul. Otherwise, the price would be lower.

Ah, I missed the roll thing. Forgot they aren't always Crazed like they were in the last book. But even with the 5++, you're still not hard to kill and don't put out much firepower.

[Grabula]

No, GW stopped interacting and then the community turned toxic. Which is what happens when you start ignoring a person.

And the community is only going to keep de-generating until GW decides to stop ignoring the issue. .

Garbage, garbage and more garbage. The GW community online is as toxic as it comes. No matter what you guys and girls get it's not enough. Please allow me to explain.

A few years ago it was that the game was flat, boring, there weren't enough releases, no one was getting the army lists for all those cute models they've collected over the years, the gripe list goes on. Now GW has turned quite a bit around. They're filling out their range, they are literally providing so much stuff you people are now *****ing about getting TOO MUCH.

Take this thread for example. Crimson Slaughter codex, big deal. Did they announce it was the last codex they're doing? Have they given anyone any reason to believe they don't continue to deliver codexes and supplementals to fill out the gaps? No, and yet the minute literally every new product gets announced a thread kicks off and within 2 pages it goes down burning in flames. Every Single Product.

That's right, the problem isn't GW at this point, it's the community.

[Deadlift]

Garbage, garbage and more garbage. The GW community online is as toxic as it comes. No matter what you guys and girls get it's not enough. Please allow me to explain.

A few years ago it was that the game was flat, boring, there weren't enough releases, no one was getting the army lists for all those cute models they've collected over the years, the gripe list goes on. Now GW has turned quite a bit around. They're filling out their range, they are literally providing so much stuff you people are now *****ing about getting TOO MUCH.

Take this thread for example. Crimson Slaughter codex, big deal. Did they announce it was the last codex they're doing? Have they given anyone any reason to believe they don't continue to deliver codexes and supplementals to fill out the gaps? No, and yet the minute literally every new product gets announced a thread kicks off and within 2 pages it goes down burning in flames. Every Single Product.

That's right, the problem isn't GW at this point, it's the community.

I kind of agree with your sentiment, but yet......not.

As you say just look at how GW have ramped up their releases. Where as we used to get something new maybe every couple of months or even longer (the gap between Necrons and Chaos marines I think was 11 months) we now get new releases it seems weekly.
But I can also understand the disappointment at a release that on the face of it nobody really wanted.
I myself love GWs products for the most part, I'm super jazzed about the Imperial Knights but kind of disappointed at the Crimson Slaughter as the next chaos codex release. But your right in saying that opinions go to the extreme at either end of the fan base and it's never more evident than on the forums. However when you walk into a GW store and talk to the customers and locals, they certainly do not have the sentiment about GW as we see sometimes here. It's generally in my area always positive.
I may not like the release schedule all the time but it's really hard to knock GW at the moment, they have really gone all out to add more choice to their ranges in the last 18 months and that's to be commended.

[ToHitMod]

If the online community that puported to represent my entire customer base reacted like such children because of an optional book of rules being released that wasn't the particular book of rules that they felt entitled to, then I'd **** off and not interact with them and stick to interacting in their hobby stores with the people who are giving them money.

[marful]

If the online community that puported to represent my entire customer base reacted like such children because of an optional book of rules being released that wasn't the particular book of rules that they felt entitled to, then I'd **** off and not interact with them and stick to interacting in their hobby stores with the people who are giving them money.

I don't know about you, but if a significant portion of my customers banded together to form an online community and unanimously *****ed about my products, pricing and service, I'd be out of a job within a month as sales plummeted due to my customers all going to other companies.

But that's probably due to the difference between the industry I work in, where there are literally thousands of competitors in every city, and an incredibly niche hobby market built around disposable income where you are lucky if your city even has a single supplier, let alone competition.


At my previous job, every time a customer came to us upset and pissed off, my boss would tell me that it was just an opportunity. He would then take every reasonable action to fix the problem, satisfy the customer and give them something to make them want to come back. And next month they would be back, with another job. That's just smart business.


GW has the potential to make a lot of profit.

Or, you know, they could ignore their customer base. The same customer base that are screaming "take our money", if only GW would sell product XYZ...