New Helbrutes and Crimson Slaughter Codex

[SaveModifier]

Why should I use any Chaos Codex/Supplement when I want to represent a "newly fallen force of Space Marines"?
Is there any reason not to just use Codex: Space Marines?

The first things you do when you join Chaos:
1) Line up all your Landraider variants, Land Speeder, Whirwinds, Razorbacks, Trikes... if you are done so fill all your droppods explosives and let them fall on top of your lined up vehicles.
2) Tell your Terminators to get rid of these ridiculous Assault Cannons. Thunderhammers, Storm Shields and Cyclones...
3) Tell your Techmarines and Chaplains to never ever use a Bike again because... thats why!
4) Slaughter your Scout squads and burn their equipment.
5) Forget about your training and run away if those pesky Loyalists kill a few of you and dont forget to form a gigantic blob of Marines as you dont know how to form combat squads anymore.

Fluffwise there is no reason to use Codes: CSM to represent ANY kind of Chaos Space Marines. Just go and use Codex: Space Marines and enjoy "count as rules" for your Favorite Legion.

No one knows anything about this rumour beyond it says there is a Codex: The Crimson Slaughter coming, not that its a supplement from the Chaos Space Marine codex, perhaps it will be a new codex that addresses the issues you're raising? Its not worth arguing about at this point.

And fluff-wise, Codex Chaos Space Marines is better for HH-era traitors, remember that Codex: Space Marines represents Space Marines fighting using the dictates of the Codex Astartes, not how they fought as Legions and not how they fight as disparate warbands formed from the shattered remnants of those Legions, look at how Astartes in the Heresy rules fight, giant blobs of dudes! Bikes were only used as Outriders by the Legions, except for the Khan’s White Scars, so command structures wouldn’t have had access to them as often, But hey, use Codex Space Marines if you want, you won’t get any Daemon Princes, possessed, Daemon Engines

[bfmusashi]

Come on guys I think GW are really missing the mark here with this release. Sure it's going to be cool if proven, but we all know what will happen if and when the big 4 get their own codex/supplement.

Players from the other five legions will complain about how GW hates them?

[Deadlift]

Players from the other five legions will complain about how GW hates them?

Probably

[lattd]

It's sad that chaos gets rumoured to be the rest of the month a new book rumour which we have no details for and people still complain rather than be happy it's something.

[Charon]

No one knows anything about this rumour beyond it says there is a Codex: The Crimson Slaughter coming, not that its a supplement from the Chaos Space Marine codex, perhaps it will be a new codex that addresses the issues you're raising? Its not worth arguing about at this point.

And fluff-wise, Codex Chaos Space Marines is better for HH-era traitors, remember that Codex: Space Marines represents Space Marines fighting using the dictates of the Codex Astartes, not how they fought as Legions and not how they fight as disparate warbands formed from the shattered remnants of those Legions, look at how Astartes in the Heresy rules fight, giant blobs of dudes! Bikes were only used as Outriders by the Legions, except for the Khan’s White Scars, so command structures wouldn’t have had access to them as often, But hey, use Codex Space Marines if you want, you won’t get any Daemon Princes, possessed, Daemon Engines

And they still scrapped all their antigrav, drop pods, whirlwinds, land raider variants,... ?
Just take a look at the FW Legions. Thats 30k. Thats what chaos "should have".
And why would I want daemon princes when they are useless anyway? I can still convert that space marine chapter master and call him daemon prince (I dont like this "he got daemonic powers -> he has to be really big now" anyways)
Why do I want to have posessed? They are nice models (maybe use the ones with wings as assault marines) but have bad rules. You can always use your models in the right context but why you want to use crappy rules for your pretty minis?
Oh noez! I cant use daemon engines which lower my BF and eat my marines anymore... why would I miss them when I can get nearly all their advantages and no drawbacks by just using Iron Hand tactics?
Why would I ever miss the Bulldozer Lord when I can have Knights?
Nearly all the stuff you mention is just a pretty conversion with a crappy ruleset. You can ALWAYS convert your minis no need to use a bad ruleset.
Best thing is my Wordbearers can be battlebrothers with their corrupted ex-imperial PDF!

[Wolfshade]

There has been plenty of discussion about this point before and I don't really wish to re-type it all. But essentially from a game mechanics POV there needs to be some seperation between Codex:Space Marine, and Codex:Chaos Space Marine. If Chaos Space Marine have access to all Space Marine wargear/equipment + all the bonuses of the additional units to make them fluffy, then there is little point in playing Codex: Space Marine, and Chaos just become a cool variant of Space Marines. The same argument could be made for Grey Knights, that they should have all of the normal space marine stuff + the cool Grey Knights stuff, the same with BA, DA, SW etc.

At which point you end up with every playing every codex space marine sucessor codex but no one playing the most popularist (in terms of chapters founded) type of marines.

The idea is to create greater variation between army types not less, which I will accept is challenging when we are talking of flavours of space marine. I would love my BA's to have access to thunderfire cannons but alas, I cannot. Similiarly, I am sure there are space marine players who wish they could have Baal Preds and Fast rhino chasis.

[Lord-Boofhead]

And remember Faet never post unsubstantiated rumours by bulldust merchants yanking his chain?

[Cap'nSmurfs]

"it says there is a Codex: The Crimson Slaughter coming, not that its a supplement from the Chaos Space Marine codex"

This is just the shorthand people use for the Supplement books. You'll see "Codex Iyanden" and "Codex Black Legion" referred to as such, as well.

[YourSwordisMine]

As a huge fan of the Dark Vengeance box set, I started a Crimson Slaughter Warband. I look forward to seeing more for them, as I really liked their fluff and their paint scheme. This will be the first supplement book I would actually buy.

[SaveModifier]

And they still scrapped all their antigrav, drop pods, whirlwinds, land raider variants,... ?
Just take a look at the FW Legions. Thats 30k. Thats what chaos "should have".
And why would I want daemon princes when they are useless anyway? I can still convert that space marine chapter master and call him daemon prince (I dont like this "he got daemonic powers -> he has to be really big now" anyways)
Why do I want to have posessed? They are nice models (maybe use the ones with wings as assault marines) but have bad rules. You can always use your models in the right context but why you want to use crappy rules for your pretty minis?
Oh noez! I cant use daemon engines which lower my BF and eat my marines anymore... why would I miss them when I can get nearly all their advantages and no drawbacks by just using Iron Hand tactics?
Why would I ever miss the Bulldozer Lord when I can have Knights?
Nearly all the stuff you mention is just a pretty conversion with a crappy ruleset. You can ALWAYS convert your minis no need to use a bad ruleset.
Best thing is my Wordbearers can be battlebrothers with their corrupted ex-imperial PDF!

So, you don't want to play Chaos then? Why not just play Iron Hands if you don't like anything that makes Chaos, Chaos?