Chaos V Loyalist, Supply V Demand, and a discussion thereof.

[Charon]

I guess the point is:
If you want to field a half decent CSM List better dont bring any CSM to the table

[DrBored]

I guess the point is:
If you want to field a half decent CSM List better dont bring any CSM to the table

This makes me so sad...

[SaveModifier]

Chaos Space Marines may only have one type of dreadnaught, but they have three daemon engines in the codex, access to Contemptors from FW and the gorgeous Decimator as well!

[Charon]

Not in the codex and thus not playable in many gaming groups / turneys.
The Daaemon engines just got a little bit more pale when you compare them to the shiny new toy, the knight.

[daboarder]

Chaos Space Marines may only have one type of dreadnaught, but they have three daemon engines in the codex, access to Contemptors from FW and the gorgeous Decimator as well!

You do realise that loyalists have more dread and raider variants than we have tanks and daemon enginre combined right?

[SaveModifier]

If you're counting the knight, Chaos has that Lord of Battle or Skulls or what have you

And any group worth its salt allows FW units now, surely, there has been enough signals from GW and FW that they're official.

[Nabterayl]

I think there are all sorts of things to like about the CSM codex from a flavor perspective. There are also lots of things that could be better from a flavor perspective.

[SaveModifier]

You do realise that loyalists have more dread and raider variants than we have tanks and daemon enginre combined right?

You do realise that Space Marines account for more sales than all other armies combined, right?

I think there are all sorts of things to like about the CSM codex from a flavor perspective. There are also lots of things that could be better from a flavor perspective.

I think, like with most of the current codexes, the fluff is there and encouraged, however, they're easily breakable, which makes people think (mainly because they read it online) that their armies aren't very good, most people how ever, aren't going to play in tournaments against opponents where you need maximum efficiency, if both players take fluffy, non minmaxed lists, the game is pretty even, i think the missions in some of the dataslates and tomes really highlight the narrative elements of an army and how it should be played to match the fluff and should be encouraged to be used more, I'd like to see them put some of these narrative missions in WD Weekly and encourage people to play them rather than sticking to the basic rulebook ones.

[daboarder]

I think I threw up a little reading some of the posts in the last day!

People will just ignore whatever they want in the name of their own vindication wont they. Ive yet to see any background quotes from the ****ty marine crusade.

Hey save, you mention A D-B, would you like to know that he disagrees that chaos marines are all under equipped and ragged? Ive thrown up his post earlier might be good to go read it.

CSMs build empires, have forgeworlds and are predominantly well equipped. This is printed in black and white

[SaveModifier]

I think I threw up a little reading some of the posts in the last day!

People will just ignore whatever they want in the name of their own vindication wont they. Ive yet to see any background quotes from the ****ty marine crusade.

Hey save, you mention A D-B, would you like to know that he disagrees that chaos marines are all under equipped and ragged? Ive thrown up his post earlier might be good to go read it.

CSMs build empires, have forgeworlds and are predominantly well equipped. This is printed in black and white

Yes, but not as Legions, a few hundred Space Marines can build an empire, especially on the fringes of the Imperium, they have access to forges of the rogue elements of the mechanicum, but who knows what services they'd have to trade for them, they're just not the Legions that once were, they split and join each other at a moments notice, a large army might stay with their Daemon Primarch in the Eye, but many will have gone off to do their own thing, the important thing about the Traitors is that the bond of brotherhood is gone, they are now loyal only to themselves, not to a goal or the Emperor, the Warmaster or even their Primarch, why would they be when they can go out on their own and earn the favour of the Gods for themselves and become as powerful as a Primarch in their own right?

I'm sorry that the fluff and the game rules don't conform to what you want them to, but its your game, you can remake whatever you like in your own image.