Imperial Knights Strikedown

[Chad Thornton]

Now that people have started playing games with the Imperial Knights I am curious how people are handling its Strikedown ability. RAW its on the model, not a specific weapon so it should apply to everything but I want to know if people are just applying it to its melee attacks?

[George Labour]

Unless I missed something while looking this up for Riptides and othe Monstrous creatures. Model special rules do not transfer to weapons, just as weapon special rules do not transfer to models.

IE, if a model has a gun that has poisoned the model itself does not gain poisoned, nor do the models other weapons acquire that ability. If a gun has melta then a model does not have melta, nor do other weapons the model may use gain Melta.

As such None of the Knights shooting attacks gain strikedown as it is not in their profiles.

[Nabterayl]

You know, I was initially in favor of Strikedown applying to all weapons, but George does have a point. If he's correct, then a Knight's Strikedown rule applies only to its Stomp attacks, which is the only attack it can make without using a weapon. I must admit that, intuitively, that strikes me as a not-crazy result.

I was going to use Rending and Sniper as a counter-example, but I think they actually support George's contention, since they specifically say things like:

If a model has the Rending special rule, or is attacking with a Melee weapon that has the Rending special rule ...

and

If a weapon has the Sniper special rule, or is fired by a model with the Sniper special rule ...

I think I am going to have to reverse my earlier decision, in favor of Strikedown applying to Stomp attacks only.

... unless Stomp attacks already have Strikedown? I don't have any relevant codices handy, unfortunately, so I can't check.

[Tynskel]

hmmmm...

to me, it seems that models can have shooting USRs and melee USRs. Rending is exactly how it sounds, rending down something in melee. The same with sniper—shooting.

I would imagine that strikedown follows CC USRs, unless specifically applied to a gun.

[George Labour]

I'd say it applies to Hammer of Warth, its melee weapons, and stomps as those are all listead as attacks made by the model.

HOWEVER. I'm iffy on the stomp as I think it may not be an actual attack in the same way as the other two. So I reserve my right to change my mind on that later.

[Tyrendian]

if a model has a gun that has poisoned the model itself does not gain poisoned, nor do the models other weapons acquire that ability. If a gun has melta then a model does not have melta, nor do other weapons the model may use gain Melta.

not really to the point, since those are examples where a rule doesn't transfer from one weapon to another - that is obvious... can't really think of another example where a special rule possessed by a model and not its weapons would affect said weapons; usually stuff like that is worded as "all/some of its weapons gain X", just not in this case... dey dun goofed

€: aaaand way too late... feel free to ignore

€²:

to me, it seems that models can have shooting USRs and melee USRs. Rending is exactly how it sounds, rending down something in melee. The same with sniper—shooting.

since when is Rending in any way associated with melee? Assault Cannons can be used as clubs, yes, but that's not where they Rend... and I can't think of an example where a MODEL would have Rending - at most "it's melee Attacks gain Rending", which is still very clear - but nothing like the case of the Knights...

Not that I'd advocate for their guns to have Strikedown, mind you - I just think that RAW that seems to be the case... dey dun goofed as I said before

[George Labour]

At the moment there is no ranged weapon that has strikedown. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

SO I supppose GW thought we'd be wise enough to notice that and didn't add in a distinction where one didn't actually exist. Pity they didn't make a paragraph at the beginning of the chapter stating when/if special rules transfer back and forth between model and weapons.

[Rev. Tiberius Jackhammer]

At the moment there is no ranged weapon that has strikedown. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, the Telekinesis shooting power, Assail, has Strikedown. Although I'd agree that it likely wasn't the writer's intention that Strikedown influence shooting attacks - while it would make sense for a Knight's cannon to knock things over, having the Heavy Stubbers have Strikedown while stuff like, say, Autocannons does not would be kinda silly.

[Gleipnir]

As a rule Strikedown would only apply to an imperial Knight that opts to make base statistic attacks meaning using its attack profile and strength STR 10 and 3 attacks(basically almost any model that can assault can use its fists or kick or headbutt on in general flail about hitting things weapon or not, think Titans with 2 range Cannon Arms and no obvious melee weapons), it needs a FAQ to make clear if all weapon profiles receive model rules(I would be inclined to say no they don't since you are not using the base form of attack), that are not included as a part of their weapon profile, but in the past you would not per the rules made clear in the BRB FAQ and other codex FAQs have applied it to other special forms of attacks like Vector Strike, Sweep, Stomp and Hammer of Wrath which have their own special rules for resolving damage and effects, additional special rules are not combined with them or applied to them.

RAW nothing says don't apply model special rules to the weapon profiles for melee or shooting attacks(That I could find, though if George can cite his earlier source that said Monstrous Creatures with Special Rules cannot use them with Weapon Profiles that may solve that), but many examples in the FAQ where it would never be applied to other special forms of attacks, Sweep, Vector Strike, Hammer of Wrath etc.

[Gleipnir]

Was gonna say missiles have Strikedown too but now I think that was Concussive they have.