Another debate on female space marines but humor me for a second

[eldargal]

Not just that, the Imperial Truth certainly insists on challenging superstition and dogma, the only potential issue would be the inevitable issue of an imperial planet falling behind its reproduction projections and blaming it on homosexuality.

Good point.

[onlyonepinman]

I find most of the feminist theory on this subject to be nonsense, applicable to only a small percentage of women. If women really were being socialised out of enjoying hobbies that are gender typically male, then as soon as they were told that it was OK to enjoy those things, all the suppressed interests would shine through. Except that isn't happening for wargaming leading me to assume that, despite the enormous amount of media attention feminist nonsense receives, either women generally just don't like wargaming or there's lots of women who haven't heard the message - I find the latter unlikely. He is not deceived who knows himself to have been deceived.

Wargaming is what it is and women have every opportunity to enjoy that hobby, but generally it is males who are interested which is why it appears to cater more for men/boys (let's be honest, with 40k, it's boys). Personally I don't give a rats arse whether Games Workshop do or don't produce female miniatures in their 40k (or fantasy for that matter) range, they've retconned enough fluff in the past for fluff to not be an obstacle. However I don't think that they will unless they have proof that there is a need (as opposed to a want) for them to do so (i.e. losing customers by not making them), something that would justify the expense of changing lots of kits around, until that happens they simpy won't take the risk.

[Sam Menethil]

Well you can't really model gay, but as a background thing sure. Some human heads with different ethnicities would also be very welcome, you can only go so far with paint. There are already disabled models though, any human ith cybernetic prostheses and dreadnoughts.

Edit: Weren't there some lesbian Guardswomen in one of the novels?

Is it bad that I now have this image of a space marine in pink armour skipping around the battlefield saying "Have you seen my new gun? Its faaaaaaaaaabulous"?

[Gotthammer]

Yes.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Pretty Marines?

[Sam Menethil]

Yup pretty marines. Emperors Children just wasn't pink enough

[Psychosplodge]

I thought pretty marines were purple?

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

Fuschia.

[iandanger]

I find most of the feminist theory on this subject to be nonsense, applicable to only a small percentage of women. If women really were being socialised out of enjoying hobbies that are gender typically male, then as soon as they were told that it was OK to enjoy those things, all the suppressed interests would shine through. Except that isn't happening for wargaming leading me to assume that, despite the enormous amount of media attention feminist nonsense receives, either women generally just don't like wargaming or there's lots of women who haven't heard the message - I find the latter unlikely. He is not deceived who knows himself to have been deceived.

Ah, the old classic, telling women and allies that their views are a minority, irrelevant, and implying they're deceiving you for some dastardly end. I think I just got bingo on my knee-jerk patriarchy defense bingo card!

Again, we ARENT talking about women being socialized out of interest in some toys, that issue applies to young children, who aren't part of the wargaming community. Instead, we're talking about Warhammer 40k, which is more than just a wargame mind you, and whether making the perspective of stories told and options for playing pieces broader would improve the game's accessibility, and in that regard increase the chance that an interested female player would actually play the game. As I noted before, there's nothing inherently male oriented about building figures and painting them, and other areas of board gaming are thriving with an influx of 20-somethings purchasing board games. The industry is in rennaisance. Games Workshop's unit sales (rather than revenue) are in a fairly steady decline at the same time. Other companies are also offer story lines that include far more female protagonists without suffering at all. Telling a broader spectrum of stories, and including more women and minorities in the company could only broaden appeal.

And lets get real, the vast majority of people of all genders are not aware of wargaming, let alone Games Workshop, that's what happens when you don't engage in public relations or advertising.

Wargaming is what it is and women have every opportunity to enjoy that hobby, but generally it is males who are interested which is why it appears to cater more for men/boys (let's be honest, with 40k, it's boys). Personally I don't give a rats arse whether Games Workshop do or don't produce female miniatures in their 40k (or fantasy for that matter) range, they've retconned enough fluff in the past for fluff to not be an obstacle. However I don't think that they will unless they have proof that there is a need (as opposed to a want) for them to do so (i.e. losing customers by not making them), something that would justify the expense of changing lots of kits around, until that happens they simpy won't take the risk.

In fact GW doesn't seem to have a plan to deal with their market share decline at all, aside from opening more single person stores. We're not talking about changing kits around, we're talking about including female sculpts in future releases, it wouldn't be difficult and wouldn't cost any more than the mini cost to develop in the first place. As we've already discussed, there's a huge gap between what is available and what exists in the stories.

[Sam Menethil]

Depends how you paint them really. It seems to vary from a fairly medium purple right up to a bright pink. I've seen both purples and pinks used for them. Either way pretty marines. Not that I can talk really with my BA's