Another debate on female space marines but humor me for a second

[Xaric]

Ok I have been looking over countless forums other then this one regarding the possibility of female space marines and I must say the possibility is 80% but being allowed is about 20%.

The reason for this lets take a step back in the past in human past time where males are dominate and women was not no this is not a sexist attack this is just how history Is and was. There are other reason a female was not allowed to go to war due to distraction of seeing the opposite sex being killed outright could be more horrifying then someone of the same sex and the horrors of a woman being captured that. Or most men back then justified there manliness by saying woman are weak and such this could be the very reason women are not allowed to be space marines hence look at IG no real speaking of female IG as they are all male even in the fluff there is very little on female IG command and such.

This can also apply to why space marines are extremely xenophobic in history those of a different race to some cultures was deemed lesser then there cultures and the only way to deal with them was slavery or put to death.

Now the biological sense with tech this high in the 40k having the ability to use geneseeds on a human regardless of sex should not be a problem after all were in the year 2014 and we have sex change's I think in 37986 years they will be able to implement geneseeds regardless of gender.

What is everyone else take on this please try to keep things civil.

[ElectricPaladin]

Ok...

So, first of all, I don't mean to be a jerk but... could you try putting some punctuation in your post? Like maybe a period or two? Some commas? It's kind of hard to read.

On to the point of the conversation: I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. The fluff is quite clear - Astartes are made from young boys at a certain age, and some of the genes used to create Astartes are sex-linked, so you can't do the same thing to a young girl. There are ladies in power armor - an entire faction of them, in fact, as well as the occasional lady inquisitor or extremely fortunate lady bounty hunter - and many of them are quite badass, but no lady Space Marines. Fine. I think that everyone is, by now, quite clear that this is what GW is going for. I don't see a lot of room for debate.

It seems that you object, but I can't tell where or why.

I think it's well within an author's purview to declare that certain things shall be so and other things shan't entirely on a whim. They don't have to explain themselves to you any further than being internally consistent. Whatever I or anyone else thinks about the "right" or the "wrong" of writing this particular universe, it's the universe they've created, and it's internally consistent. No female Space Marines. Why? Because super-science, that's why? But... logic? No, says super-science. No. The Warp hasn't got to follow your rules, psykers don't got to follow your rules - nothing's got to follow your rules. It's all got to follow its own rules, and it does.

Those rules, as I understand it, is that transforming a person into a Space Marine requires some genetic similarity between the person and the Primarch. Genes are finicky and weird, and it probably isn't just a matter of % similarity. As long as there are genetic diseases - diseases with nothing to do with your actual boy or girl bits - that only boys or girls can get, it makes sense that there can be transhuman implants that are similarly sex-linked.

Now, if what you want to talk about is "is it the best choice - the most interesting, creative, forward-thinking idea - to have Space Marines all be dudes?" In that case the answer is no. It's absolutely BS, macho nonsense.

[rogue.trader.voril]

I really don't see why this topic keeps poping up every so often...
Orks and Necrons are gender neutral, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say demons belong in here even though Slaneesh has boob(s).
Tau and Tyranids have both genders fighting side by side... probably best not to find out who is who, or what is what rather...
I have some older Imperial Guard females, few and far between, but still present.
Eldar/ Dark Eldar have both genders together.
Then there's marines and sisters. Same side, but different codex.
And Chaos marines... they are evil... equal oppertunity is the least of their problems.

If it's a problem for anyone, maybe marines is not the best choice. Just MHO.

[Captain Bubonicus]

In the Grim Darkness of the Far Future, it's a total sausage party.

[daboarder]

I really don't see why this topic keeps poping up every so often...
Orks and Necrons are gender neutral, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say demons belong in here even though Slaneesh has boob(s).
Tau and Tyranids have both genders fighting side by side... probably best not to find out who is who, or what is what rather...
I have some older Imperial Guard females, few and far between, but still present.
Eldar/ Dark Eldar have both genders together.
Then there's marines and sisters. Same side, but different codex.
And Chaos marines... they are evil... equal oppertunity is the least of their problems.

If it's a problem for anyone, maybe marines is not the best choice. Just MHO.

I'd go one step further and state that tyranids are gender meaningless. reproduction is something the hive mind doesn't bother with except for vary rare circumstances. they aren't animals they are individual "cells" in the organism that is the hvie fleet

[Nabterayl]

Now, if what you want to talk about is "is it the best choice - the most interesting, creative, forward-thinking idea - to have Space Marines all be dudes?" In that case the answer is no. It's absolutely BS, macho nonsense.

I think I'd add to this point:

If what you want to talk about is, "Does the in-universe justification make sense, or is it meaningless technobabble?" the answer is that it is totally meaningless technobabble. None of the published in-universe justifications for why you can't make female space marines make sense, from a scientific point of view. But I would just throw it onto the whole mountain of in-universe justifications or observed phenomena about 40K that don't make sense from a scientific point of view.

[ElectricPaladin]

I think I'd add to this point:

If what you want to talk about is, "Does the in-universe justification make sense, or is it meaningless technobabble?" the answer is that it is totally meaningless technobabble. None of the published in-universe justifications for why you can't make female space marines make sense, from a scientific point of view. But I would just throw it onto the whole mountain of in-universe justifications or observed phenomena about 40K that don't make sense from a scientific point of view.

I'd argue that it does make sense, but it's totally arbitrary. It could happen. There are dozens of sex-linked diseases and traits, many more of you count traits that appear in animals. The point is, though, that because it's totally arbitrary the opposite is just as likely; more likely if you consider that males and females of the human species share 99.many9s% of our genetic code. But there are many things in the Warhammer 40k universe that are totally arbitrary. Why is the symbol of Chaos an eight-sided star? Why are there four Chaos gods? Why did the Emperor have twenty sons? Why are techpriests weirdos? Why why why?

So, since it's all arbitrary and came out of some Brit's butt in the 1980s, "is it reasonable and logical" is a less interesting question than "is it a good idea, is it fun, does it foster creativity and welcome more people to the hobby, or is it lame and dumb?"

[Houghten]

And the answer is "it's not fun; it stifles creativity and locks people out of the hobby."

[Deadlift]

I don't care that there are no female marines, it's GWs fluff and for the most I'm happy with it. There's plenty of strong female archetypes within other factions. Some truly badass ladies fighting for the Imperium and against. Eldar are one that springs to mind.
So there's no female marines, really who gives a **** ?

[eldargal]

The problem for me isn't female space marines or even how women are presented in the background material in general (we can talk about the relative scarcity of female codex characters and novel protagonists) but the lack of models. We know most of the IG regiments do not discriminate on gender but all the model range is male. We know the Craftworld eldar do not discriminate by gender but 90% of the range is male. The Tau I believe do not discriminate and males and females look much the same but here is still only one explicitly female character model compared to a half dozen explicitly male character models. Dark Eldar are 50/50 which is good. Sisters are in desperate need of an update and could stand to have the fetish elements toned down slightly in certain areas ( no more pointy armoured bras and repentia...)

Getting back to Marines, the in universe explanation is completely bollocks from a real science perspective so I have no problem ignoring it and having my own FSM chapter. There is an interesting quote from Malcador in one of the HH books where he says he recommended the Emperor make Battle Sisters rather than Battle Brothers but Big E thought it was a joke which could suggest the possibility was available at least pre-Heresy.

I don't expect GW to change it and I don't really care, honestly. 40k is one of the least sexist scifi settings honestly, even if people are surprised to hear it and it is still far from un-problematic.