Another debate on female space marines but humor me for a second

[Psychosplodge]

That too

[DETHMOKIL]

I personally find female Space Marines, instead of more inclusive, defined by their gender even more.

In my mind 'name brand' Astartes are male, because it fits their background of being a knightly order of warrior monks, roaming the galaxy trying to follow in the foot steps of their Gene-Father Primarch in a quest for redemption ect ect.

It just doesn't seem very creative, or for that matter fun, to make female marines in an established chapter. It lacks that ring of zazz. Whats the gimmick? These Angels of Vigilance need more marines so they used ladies as-well? Or these Novamarines found a lost STC for a new Marine organ that only works in females? That just sounds like a justification of wanting Female Space Marines, not a theme that wouldn't get scoffed at the gaming table, regardless of arbitrary gender roles.

The only way I think It would jive with me, would be if they where genetically modified Sister of Battle that drift slowly into being close to space marines. Perhaps an advance genetically modified Skitarii, the AdMec doesn't really care about gender at all. Or a Amazonian style techno barbarians being juiced up and drafted into the army. Of course the chaos version could easily be some kind of cult or mutants or something easy like that. 40k has a huge background, the original RT version of space marines could be made by any wealthy lord as a personal army.

I believe that they could exist in 40k, but I don't think you could call them Adeptus Astartes.

[YorkNecromancer]

One thing that does bug me is the idea that if female Space Marines were introduced, that would somehow be bad. If your appreciation of Space Marines relies on them all to be male and having some be female would ruin it all for you I think that says a lot about how you think about women.

This exactly. If someone actually thinks female space marines would somehow ruin the game, that says something awful about them. Because all female space marines would actually be would be new grey plastic to glue.

And it's not like GW haven't changed massive bits of the fluff in the past. Oh hi, Necrons! What's that you say? You used to be fairly one-dimensional servants of Cthulian star-gods but now you're rather more interesting (YMMV of course)? And you say we could easily retcon Marine fluff the same way? Goodness me! It's almost as though 40K is a fictional setting where things can change!

Nah, Spoiler Malcedor says he told the Big E they should have made him daughters, they'd have been less trouble. which pretty much rules that out.

Meh, like the Emperor HAD to listen. He's the frickin' Emperor! He can do what he likes! Just retcon things so the two 'secret' Primarchs were his experiment with female marines, and he kept them secret so SPOILER: Malcador never found out.

While obviously male, the sex for marines is functionally unimportant.

Exactly. So give us female marines, and give them now, GW!

Also, there's no way to call marines 'genderless', because male is a gender, and not the default one, either.

[Psychosplodge]

Oh I'm not against the idea as such. I quite like the armoured SOB models, I'd prefer more helmets though. I just meant its in the fluff that wolfie's idea wouldn't work.
Plus I think Dorn refers to his lost brothers at somepoint as well doesn't he?

[Wolfshade]

Thoughout the HH they are referred to as masculine form.

Sorry York I probably didn't define myself adequately, what I meant, and this is probably pratriachy talking again, is that while marines are male they are so far removed from what our idea of what a male is and can be that it is amost an entirely different gender. In the same way that the marines themselves are so physically and psychologically mutated that they are not human by any rationalisation. They are transgender transhuman super soliders, who enjoy the company of their own kind exclusively .

[Gotthammer]

In my mind 'name brand' Astartes are male, because it fits their background of being a knightly order of warrior monks, roaming the galaxy trying to follow in the foot steps of their Gene-Father Primarch in a quest for redemption ect ect.

It just doesn't seem very creative, or for that matter fun, to make female marines in an established chapter. It lacks that ring of zazz. Whats the gimmick?

If the gimmick behind all male marines is the first paragraph there, it's not a mutually exclusive concept to men to follow in their father's footsteps or to seek redemption. Also why are male marines fine but if they're to be female it needs to be a gimmick? Guardians, Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions, Wyches, Scourges, Warriors/Trueborn, Archons, Hellions, Harlequins and Seers don't need an extra gimmick to explain their femaleness. The authors/sculptors just go "here are Harlequins, some of them are women" and I don't think anyone needed it explained why it was so because they already have a gimmick - killer space clowns.

Marines have the warrior knight gimmick (often with a secondary gimmick like vikings/vampires) over the top, so they'd just be women adopting that. They're only defined by their gender because people make such a big deal about how you can't have female marines.

[eldargal]

What Gott said.

[wayne williams]

my questoin would be if you had a female space marine how would you tell the differnce ? ( bear with me here lol )
by the time they are pumped so full of muscle boosting hormones have there ribcage re modelled etc thenn have black carapace fitted. then pschologically re made to think more agressively . . youd find if following standard hormone therpy in humans that are given large doses of testesterone that the female secondery sexual traits would be so minimised ( think/ picture of those lady body builders that if they where not wearing a bikini top youd never know what sex they are )
and then that after a set of power armour youd not really be able to tell .
you would just have a bunch of very pretty space marines to me and we already have them in blood angels ( lol )
in the fluff i wouldnt mind female space marines but then i always imagine that 50 % of space marines actually are female and no one can tell. and if you suspected would you ask one ?

[eldargal]

Why would you need to tell the difference?

Personally I headcanon it that in the same way that male initiates are hyper-masculinised, female initaited are hyper feminised so they end up looking like She Hulk without the green skin.

[wayne williams]

thats my point you dont need new models of space marines with boobs ( which is what we would get and probably with pices of armour missing for some reason as well ) when we can as gamers just say this chapter my chapter is mostly female .here is my back story for it .