Is "gay" a pejorative or not? And... fight!

[daboarder]

I no longer have any patience for homophobia, racism, or sexism whilst playing games. If someone says, "Gay!" during a game these days I am happy to point out out that there is nothing wrong with anyone being gay. I used to let such things go but the times they are a-changin'...

As you've stated your self.

Word meaning changes, depending on the person and situation gay does not necessarily mean homosexual.
Its a bit hypocritical to call someone out on apparently "miss using" a word, when your interpretation of the word itself is a modern phenomena anyway.

The point is that depending on the person that expression can be completely divorced from the slur on homosexuality.

ie: wonderful thing about english, context is everything

[Harley]

As you've stated your self.

Word meaning changes, depending on the person and situation gay does not necessarily mean homosexual.
Its a bit hypocritical to call someone out on apparently "miss using" a word, when your interpretation of the word itself is a modern phenomena anyway.

The point is that depending on the person that expression can be completely divorced from the slur on homosexuality.

ie: wonderful thing about english, context is everything

Of course, I'm sure when they frustratingly fail a saving throw or miss an important to-hit roll and growl "Gay!" they mean to be "lighthearted and carefree". /sarcasm

[daboarder]

Of course, I'm sure when they frustratingly fail a saving throw or miss an important to-hit roll and growl "Gay!" they mean to be "lighthearted and carefree". /sarcasm

No Im saying they mean "of all the gods cursed bad luck and terrible things"

Your saying they mean "I hate homosexuality"

see the difference, the meaning changes dependent on the context deal with it.

[SquigBrain]

No Im saying they mean "of all the gods cursed bad luck and terrible things"

Your saying they mean "I hate homosexuality"

see the difference, the meaning changes dependent on the context deal with it.

It is, in the end, a derogatory term. There are many words now for minorities that people simply don't use. Pick your favorite. If some yelled it out everytime they had a bad dice roll, would you think it was appropriate in your local game store? In your house?

It doesn't take much thought and effort, to complain about your dice *without* using something that is a trigger word for a lot of people.

[daboarder]

It is, in the end, a derogatory term. There are many words now for minorities that people simply don't use. Pick your favorite. If some yelled it out everytime they had a bad dice roll, would you think it was appropriate in your local game store? In your house?

It doesn't take much thought and effort, to complain about your dice *without* using something that is a trigger word for a lot of people.

appropriate in a gaming store? no not really

but in a house, during games and a few beers? maybe, depends on context.

Of course this is the culture where calling your best mate a **nt or a ******* is considered friendly

edit: I was more referring to the assumption that the use of an expletive means that the person using it is automatically talking about meaning context when there are others.

as in using it when you roll bad dice does not make a person homophobic

[Gotthammer]

You may just be “joking around”, but I don’t know you very well so, no, I can’t tell that you’re just joking. Especially when it’s online, and especially given there are plenty of people who act like that who do mean it legitimately. Relevant quote #1:
“Have a laugh and a joke, but in no way mean it; no one likes being insulted, whatever kind of person they are. People can be douchbags, and yes, those people should be shown the error of their ways -in no uncertain terms- but people get too hyped over this kind of thing. Take it like water off a ducks back, and reply in kind; if they cannot take it, screw them.”

That’s an excerpt from a comment in a HoP article on **** players in FoW. Now, in an ideal world that would be great. But consider this: for many LGBTA+ people and other minorities this isn’t a joking matter. What may be a joke from one person may be a prelude to assault, rape or murder from another.

Someone calling out “hey [various slurs] etc” (all things I’ve heard in game stores) as you walk past may well be a poorly judged attempt at humour, but there is always the fear in your mind that you’ll turn around and find someone standing there ready to cave your skull in for the sin of simply daring to exist.
When someone saying those things might literally kill you if they knew you belong to that group, it makes it a bit harder to say anything back or just laugh it off.

Relevent quote #2:
“Now that I know you’re joking I don’t feel hurt or offended anymore!”

You know who said that? Nobody, that’s who. Nobody ever.

[URL="http://www.houseofpaincakes.com/2012/10/so-sinsynn-asked-for-people-from-thenon.html"]From this article[/URL]

[ElectricPaladin]

My mother always told me that it was unwise and rude to use a word for something some people actually are as an actual or clinical definition as a bad word. You know, nobody is clinically "stupid" so it's ok to say "this rule is really stupid." Mental retardation is an actual thing, so it's kind of crude to say "this is retarded!" There are actual people in the world who are actual Jews - like myself, for example - so probably it's unwise to say "he totally jewed me" when referring to someone who managed to weasel money out of you.

Funny story. The owner of a Jewish summer camp I once worked at used to tell a story about a subcontractor who was trying to communicate that he had had to go over budget on some construction because of the price he was charged for lumber and was innocently confused about why the owner got hung up on the word "jewed." The owner's impression of the subcontractor's face when he finally got it was priceless.

I'm well aware that uttering statements like "that's so gay!" or "he totally jewed me" doesn't make you a bad person, exactly. It might mean that you are homophobic, racist, or otherwise bigoted, or it might not. What it does make you, however, is rude. You just don't do that. There are so many great words for something that is bad - why do you have to use a word that means something that some people actually are and presumably want to maintain a positive mindset about? Nobody wants to be a punchline.

The only grey area I see is when language genuinely moves on. I once had someone call me an ableist because of my use of the word "moron" - I had forgotten that "moron" was ever used to refer to a type of mental retardation. I don't think any American has been clinically labeled a moron for fifty years. So, maybe, "moronic" has passed into common usage as a fairly unobjectionable term for stupidity... or maybe not. I'd be willing to hear counterarguments.

The take-home lesson, though, is that I just don't see why your eagerness to express the badness of a thing supersedes someone else's interest in not being a punchline. It's rude and cruel to use actual identities and diagnoses as slurs because a polite person does not needlessly discomfort the people around them.

[Deadlift]

As you've stated your self.

Word meaning changes, depending on the person and situation gay does not necessarily mean homosexual.
Its a bit hypocritical to call someone out on apparently "miss using" a word, when your interpretation of the word itself is a modern phenomena anyway.

The point is that depending on the person that expression can be completely divorced from the slur on homosexuality.

ie: wonderful thing about english, context is everything

I am going to have to totally disagree with you there, for you it might not be an issue but I never think it's appropriate to use a term describing someone's sexual orientation as a derogatory term. As Chris said times are changing. You say it means different things to different people, but we all know what it means really.
Saying things like "my dice roll was so gay" may seem ok to you but the implication is that "gay" is bad is being made and that's just unacceptable in my book.

I swear like a trooper when things go badly in games sometimes but I don't have to resort to ignorance, and no my friends and I don't call each other c*nts or f*ckers either.

[Gleipnir]

Getting off topic but is subtle differences when a word is directed at someone or a word is directed in general i.e. context, I agree with your assessment that many slang words are just rude. I don't feel saying something is gay rises to the level of calling someone a derogatory slur, but homosexuals are sensitive of words used to describe themselves also being used to describe something in a negative light as the connotation is that both are considered the same. Most teenagers I meet using the term I politely ask to find a better way to express their meaning. Many of us grow up around such slangs and expressions without even realizing how the things that are said may be perceived by others, that's just part of education and maturity. I grew up using a term not so favorable to a subclass of Romany for example. If your intention among your friends is to be rude however and used such language well then that was your intent.

[daboarder]

I am going to have to totally disagree with you there, for you it might not be an issue but I never think it's appropriate to use a term describing someone's sexual orientation as a derogatory term. As Chris said times are changing. You say it means different things to different people, but we all know what it means really.
Saying things like "my dice roll was so gay" may seem ok to you but the implication is that "gay" is bad is being made and that's just unacceptable in my book.

I swear like a trooper when things go badly in games sometimes but I don't have to resort to ignorance, and no my friends and I don't call each other c*nts or f*ckers either.

as I said, its not a question of using someones sexual preferences as a derogatory comment, that is not what I'm arguin, I agree completely that is not appropriate.

I am arguing that the meaning of the word has changed. Maybe I'm just fortunate enough to hang around people who just don't care what relationship people are in if its none fo their damned business.