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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Tiger88 View Post
    You do know the Lord of Skulls IS NOT ALLOWED in not escalation events & Knight are right? Also how is the heldrake going to help when you need a 6 to damage the knight and it can shoot the drake down no problem?
    1) Escalation is a supplement as valid as any codex. If others don't allow it then that's not an issue with the rules, as everything in it is as rules legal as Codex: Imperial Knights. And 2) How are the Knights supposed to shoot down the Heldrakes? You can't Snap Fire Blast weapons, and the Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon and Thermal Cannon are both Large Blast weapons. The only guns they can shoot at the Heldrake's are the Heavy Stubbers, and they can't possibly harm the Heldrake. Meanwhile, Vector Strikes are inflicted against SIDE ARMOR, so they do damage on a 5+, while a Hades Autocannon, if fired against Side or Rear Armor, does damage on a 4+. So yeah, Heldrake's are totally immune to damage from a Knight while they can in turn shred a Knight.
    As for Games Workshop, which events are those? Because last I was aware, Escalation was allowed. Nevermind that Escalation isn't like Cities of Death. Escalation and Stronghold Assault are Supplements and allow extra units into your forces, only affecting that force, while Expansions (Note the different category) like Cities of Death and Apocalypse, however, change the rules of the game. That's the difference between the two.
    Last edited by The Girl; 03-31-2014 at 09:22 AM.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Emperor View Post
    1) Escalation is a supplement as valid as any codex. If others don't allow it then that's not an issue with the rules, as everything in it is as rules legal as Codex: Imperial Knights. And 2) How are the Knights supposed to shoot down the Heldrakes? You can't Snap Fire Blast weapons, and the Rapid-Fire Battle Cannon and Thermal Cannon are both Large Blast weapons. The only guns they can shoot at the Heldrake's are the Heavy Stubbers, and they can't possibly harm the Heldrake. Meanwhile, Vector Strikes are inflicted against SIDE ARMOR, so they do damage on a 5+, while a Hades Autocannon, if fired against Side or Rear Armor, does damage on a 4+. So yeah, Heldrake's are totally immune to damage from a Knight while they can in turn shred a Knight.
    Which leads again to the utter fun of 3 - 4 Heldrake lists.
    While escalation is valid when BOTH players agree on using it, the Lord of Battle is at a disadvantage here. He costs as much as 2 Knights, gets the Knights player additional VP and a special Warlord table.

  3. #103

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    I did make a mistake, though, in saying that the Heldrake was totally immune to harm from a Knight. The Knight could potentially hurt it with its Heavy Stubbers, but only if it rolls 6's to hit, shoots the 10 Rear Armor, and then rolls 6's to inflict a Glancing Hit. That's the only way, however.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Tiger88 View Post
    Oh im sorry i can't hear you over the point and win of a knight
    LOL! If you think the Knight is "point and win" then you're a lost cause. If anything, the thing's overpriced for what it does. Its defenses are certainly easy enough to circumvent, and I've seen it shredded and blasted apart several times (including by Heldrake's). The only issue with Knights is when you take an army of them, and that's the same issue one would have with an Armored Company list. If someone brings a TAC list then they'll find part of their army completely unable to harm the opposition, but if someone comes prepared with plenty of anti-vehicle firepower then they'll roast the Knight force just as they would the Armored Company.

    please talk more about how you know what you are doing well my self and those who don't love instant win cheese look at all the awesome new forgeworld models.
    Wait, are you upset that they're supposedly "instant win cheese" (which they're assuredly not), or that you don't have access to that "instant win cheese"? Either way, thanks for the reminder of the accuracy of every negative stereotype of Chaos players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charon View Post
    Which leads again to the utter fun of 3 - 4 Heldrake lists.
    While escalation is valid when BOTH players agree on using it, the Lord of Battle is at a disadvantage here. He costs as much as 2 Knights, gets the Knights player additional VP and a special Warlord table.
    In that case rely on the Heldrakes. Airpower is one of the best counters against Knights for any army, not just Chaos, and you can get two Heldrakes for less than the price of one Knight. Not to mention that it'd encourage Chaos players to use the Hades Autocannon instead of the Baleflamer.

  5. #105

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    Knight armies, Chaos lists? Heldrakes spam and cheese?

    I thought this was a thread about FW Open Day, let us please keep it that way.

    You can always add the pros/cons the other topics have all had threads dedicated to them so let's keep everything tidy.
    Fan of Fuggles | Derailment of the Wolfpack of Horsemen | In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfshade View Post
    Knight armies, Chaos lists? Heldrakes spam and cheese?

    I thought this was a thread about FW Open Day, let us please keep it that way.

    You can always add the pros/cons the other topics have all had threads dedicated to them so let's keep everything tidy.
    Fair enough.... Now lets get FW to show us Mortarion! Then we have all the first book Primarchs!
    Potential war gameing Jawa.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Emperor View Post
    Yeah, it's really great at taking out high Initiative Monstrous Creatures. Shoot them with it's gun, get the Concussive effect, then charge in and attack first.

    So, I guess you forgot about the Lord of Skulls, a Super-Heavy which can be taken in normal games and which can easily match a Knight in combat?

    Attachment 8059

    And Chaos has plenty that can match it aside from that, principally the Heldrake, which is immune to harm from the Knight while being able to slap it with Str 7 Vector Strikes against its 12 Side Armor and shots from its Str 8 Hades Autocannon.
    Ah right, I almost forgot that Concussive effect! Nice catch, yeah that definitely seems to be the purpose of the Lancer. It won't mash regular infantry as well as the other variants, nor will it put a beating on vehicles at range as the Errant in particular does, but it is a really nice counter to monstrous creatures that are otherwise very difficult for Knights to deal with if they are Initiative 4 or higher.

    As far as the Knights are concerned, there are many of them that did fall to Chaos. It seems odd that there isn't an option for Knights to be used by Chaos Space Marines at the very least. However, as the codex was called Imperial Knights and not just Knights, it stands to reason why Chaos didn't get in on the party. However, that probably means there will be a supplement or dataslate in the near future to allow their usage by Chaos players. It annoys me more than anything else as Chaos really should be able to officially employ Knights of some kind; a little section in the Knight codex that said "Chaos Space Marines may take take an Allied Detachment of Knights but cannot themselves be allied to Imperial Knights" would have been fine I feel and avoided a lot of controversy.
    Last edited by Learn2Eel; 03-31-2014 at 02:57 AM.
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  8. #108

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    @The Emperor
    After the original Knights rules release in White Dwarf it was asked via the facebook page which armies could take them. The reply from Staff was anyone can take them. It was then said any army that can take allies can take them. Then the book came out that said only X armies can take them.

    The fact that this probably caused headaches as a result might have something to do with them shuttering the social media pages a few weeks later

  9. #109

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    Was there any news about IA13?
    Ask not the EldarGal a question, for she will give you three answers, all of which are puns and terrifying to know. Back off man, I'm a feminist. Ia! Ia! Gloppal Snode!

  10. #110

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    Last edited by Brother Garrod; 04-01-2014 at 09:51 AM.

 

 
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