What is your view on a player with knock offs?

[lævus]

Cutting costs to increase profits can actually be very effective, the theory being that although you make less money from each unit, you can shift a proportionately higher number of units and reduce stock stagnation.

I believe the last GW half yearly report showed revenue of £60.5M and a pre-tax profit of £7.7M, equating to a 12.73% pre tax profit margin. Although this doesn't sound fantastic, when you compare it to another company for example BAE systems, a FTSE 100 company who reported £7,952M revenue and pre-tax profit of £529M, only a 6.65% pre-tax margin it looks a lot better. A lot of businesses DO operate on a thin margin, GW's definitely isn't the thinnest though.

To the OP, theres a bit of fluff in an older codex that refers to a regiment that was bought back up to strength through the combination of a Catachan and an Elysian regiment who had both suffered heavy casualties, creating an airborne jungle specialist regiment.
If you wanted to keep it all GW products it could be an option to explore. Mixing Catachan kits (the HW teams and Command squads don't look bad like the older basic troopers and can be picked up on the internet at a decent price) with some of the FW Elysian squads, and the respirator heads and bits they sell to find a middle ground in price.

[Defenestratus]

Well a samsung phone was ruled as an ip breach so hes got that one right...

Only in certain aspects and certainly not on all of the ones that Apple had hoped for.

But lets not let pesky facts get in the way of of Apple fanboyism.


</threadjack>

At this point, recasting has been so rampant that chances are that you've played against a whole army of recasts and never knew it.

I know of a guy who placed in the top 10 at a national-level tournament that had a completely, 100% recast army and nobody ever knew.

[stevegill]

If GW "can't afford to drop prices," then they're doing something terribly wrong. Other companies are able to sell similar quality models for much, much less (i.e. a unit of Witch Elf style models that are 30 for ~$50, or Dwarfs at 20 for ~$50, whereas GW sells 10 for $60 and 10 for $50, respectively). Why can they afford it and not GW? If GW is having trouble making money charging the same as other people, then they are spending way too much somewhere. And that just leads me to wonder where the heck that money is going. Especially as it seems they had a lot less revenue coming in this past six-month period, but almost the same operating costs (even as they switch to cheaper to maintain stores). So, again, where the heck is all that money going? What can be cut that is unnecessary and being used by some people to excuse GW charging way too much for models that other companies could charge 1/3-1/2 for?

So which bits should they cut?
The stores without which there would be a lot fewer new players?
The R&D teams, the products are good enough now so we don't need improvements?
Heavy Metal and the army building team, the other companies seem to do OK without a lot of pro-painted figure photos?
Use cheaper sculptors and designers, other companies do quite well with almost as good quality designs?
The game design team, surely one of the other companies that make compatible products will pick up the slack on codex and game design?
The artists, who needs all those pretty pictures and fancy displays anyway?
Warhammer World, it's just a geeky theme park really?

GW run things at a very different level to the other gaming companies, unfortunately it all costs.

And yes, I did used to call GW the Evil Empire, but then I learned about how the luxury goods / hobby market works and kind of understand now (though it doesn't stop me cursing when I really want something I can't justify paying for).

[Peasant]

Here are a few things I don't think people realize...
1. Everyone claims GW prices are outrageous, yet if you look at the majority of model companies, all of their prices are in line with each other. Excluding the occasional over priced box, Witch Elves I'm looking at you.
2. How are you determining this 'fair' pricing?? A non necessity item (i.e. things not required for living) is marketed at the value people will pay.
3. A knock off does not determine that a model is 'unfairly' priced, rather that it is a highly prized item and in effect proves that the price point is where it should be based on what people are willing to pay. (demand) If the people had the funds to easily purchase the product, they would
4. There is a mistake many make about profit. The idea that a model that is sold for $2 and costs $1 to make means $1 profit is incorrect. It is more complex but let's make this as short and simple as possible..
When making a model you must pay sculptors, mold makers, materials, packaging etc..let's say you make a ton and it costs $100,000 in production and plastics etc.(cheap huh) if it sells for $10 each the company must sell 10,000 of them before it begins to make a profit on the item. So any currently available knockoffs damage what the company can produce in the future and even continue to make off of the item being sold.

But to stay as the question was asked,
I would not agree with the players choice of purchase. Any purchase of fakes damages a company. Although it may be difficult to tell some of the knockoffs so if they don't say anything about it it is difficult to know. Knowing they purchased fakes would potentially cause me to keep a closer eye on their gaming because their scruples may be a bit shady.

[Gleipnir]

the Asian market excels at reverse engineering products ie knocking off, they started with textiles goods, moved onto manufactured goods and now produces electronic and video copies and luxury goods.

The majority of consumers today "expect" to pay prices on par of textile goods produced from an Asian market source(many textile jobs have relocated to compete), increasingly manufactured goods are gaining the same level of acceptance(though from experience the stuff is crap for quality in comparison even at 1/5th the cost) Luxury goods and electronics are just the newest emerging market. Miniatures luckily benefit from their niche status since I doubt we will ever see a GW Beijing stealing all those UK jobs.

[daboarder]

Only in certain aspects and certainly not on all of the ones that Apple had hoped for.

But lets not let pesky facts get in the way of of Apple fanboyism.


</threadjack>

At this point, recasting has been so rampant that chances are that you've played against a whole army of recasts and never knew it.

I know of a guy who placed in the top 10 at a national-level tournament that had a completely, 100% recast army and nobody ever knew.

Mm fanboy....sure thing.

Im writing this on a samsung

- - - Updated - - -

This is where good will between the company and the consumer comes in. And frankly GW has almost no goodwill left.

As others say when GW engages in moral interactions with their customers then they can expect to get morality back.

And no "making profit" is not an excuse its a feeble justification that relies on the consumer following morals

[Sam Menethil]

I kind of sit on the fence a little with this one. A part of me wants to support GW/FW and ensure they continue to exist. The prices are high but they do produce some gorgeous models, although some of the rules could do with a little tweaking and play testing before releases but that's neither here nor there. I will generally buy the legit products from third party sites where possible and then from GW/FW directly if its an item which the 3rd party doesn't sell.

I do think however that a little leeway can go the other way in that if someone without much money, like my brother for instance, wants to play then I don't see an issue with him buying a couple of recasts. If it means that he can enjoy the game a lot more than if he had to wait several months longer to get a playable army of a reasonable size then I think this benefits the company more as he will be more likely to continue playing the game and then potentially buying future models. If however he can only buy directly from GW/FW or a 3rd party then it will take him much longer to get together a workable army and I know that he's been frustrated before and almost quit. Situations like this I feel are negative in that because of pricing he will quit the game completely. So sure he's buying a few recast models here and there but he will also pick up some full price ones occasionally if funds permit it and it means he will continue playing for years to come and he still buys their paints, brushes and ofc the codex's to be able to play with his models

Speaking for myself however I have bought a few recasts but when I've bought them its been purely for conversion purposes. I don't buy a whole recast to field it as it is. If I buy a recast its because I want to cannibalise some of the parts to make my own conversions. I'm not going to pay £15 for the Sanguinor for instance when really all I wanted of the model is the body. I'll buy the recast which works out at around £6, cannibalise the body and the other parts will end up in my bits box. I wouldn't mind if GW still sold bits or individual sprues like they used to years ago but I refuse to pay full price for a whole kit when I just want a few individual parts. Just my input to this conversation

[JGRSound]

I've bought some thinking it was forgeworld and realising it wasn't when it arrived, the biggest give away was that all the pieces fit together and where straight. Personally I'm not a massive fan of knock offs but it wouldn't bother me playing someone with them. I'm also sure forgeworld could half their costs if each model didn't come attached to a concrete barricade (I have actually used them for this they look great) There are also a lot of companies doing very nice armies that are good IG proxies, some specifically aimed at 40k some for there own games. But lets be honest if you don't want to play cadians or catachans 3rd party figures are your only real option at the moment.

[Wolfshade]

The plastic/resin used in a physical model is the cheapest part of the whole thing...

[Necron2.0]

Those who Purchase reproduction items from China are participating in a crime, this hurts the company whose items are being knocked off which then means that company, because of the loss of sales will have to drive their prices up even further, thus driving more knockoff sales, until such a point that the company goes bankrupt.

That's not really how it works. True enough it is a crime, but the reason why recasters can do what they do is because the prices for originals are so inflated - inflated enough to cover the recaster's costs in initial set-up and production and still allow them to make a handsome profit. I have cast miniatures of my own (as in originals by me) and based on my own experiences, labor would not be the most expensive aspect of the operation - it is materials and set-up.

The fact that recasters can do what they do is the surest sign that GW's products are woefully overpriced. If GW wanted to end the recaster phenomenon, the solution is bone-head simple - drop their prices to be at least in the ballpark of reasonable. If someone could buy a knock-off at price "x", or else buy an original at price "1.10 * X" (for example), chances are your average schmuck isn't going to bother with the hassle and moral dilemma of going for the knock-off. What GW is doing now, particularly with respect to their aggressive and unfriendly attitude towards their customers, they're pushing the average to say, "Alright, @#$! you. You're just a greedy, selfish little base-turd, and I'm going to hurt you any way I can."