IG Command Squads

[Zombie Savant]

I'll concede that I use non guard elements to allow for my particular play-style, and I've never argued otherwise. The previous post was targeted at your claim that you cannot effectively combat, with an Imperial Guard army, the "real assaulters" of the 40k world, and I explained a number of situations in which you can.

Moreover, by nature of being legal in the rules, I don't see why a hybrid army should be considered a separate entity. I would encourage every player of an Imperial army to look at using allies -- they can really bolster certain aspects of your force, and the Imperial Guard Codex, as I discussed in detail, really can facilitate some excellent combos.

The only thing that I disagree with your opinion that the guard themselves cannot win out. I gave an example in the above post wherein an exclusively guard force trounced the theoretical TH/SS terminators. If you get the charge against even Khorne Berserkers (with an equal amount of points spent on both groups) you have a pretty good chance to seriously gut that squad. In fairness, you'll get gutted in return, but like so many things in the guard arsenal, a bit of combined arms and you can tip the scales in your favor.

So what if the Berzerkers are in transports? They can't assault they turn they disembark, so they're going to be vulnerable to at least one round of shooting, and you can get the assault.

If you're worried about Termis then spend 5 points to upgrade the battlecannon to a demolisher.

But I agree with you -- being a close-combat oriented is not central to a successful guard army, but I would definitely say that being close-combat oriented can be central to a successful guard army. And I'll freely admit that I think Inquisitorial elements can improve efficacy greatly -- what's the problem with using them? That's what's good about the new guard codex -- you're not just Str 3 T 3 guys anymore. You're Str 4 I 4 guys, and that can really open a lot of doors. You're striking as well as a Space marine against a space marine for a 3rd of the cost.

Close-Combat can be valid. So can Mech, and gunline, and air-cav, and any of the multitudes of new options the codex has granted. That's all I'm arguing.

[CKO]

Guard cannot win on a competitive scene using close combat. Our new codex has tricks that can do alot of cool stuff that will win combat. The mob combos are not realiable because as the number of guardsmen decrease, the unit is not able to do as much damage. Template weapons especially flamers will take out 4-8 at a time.

[Chumbalaya]

Well if you're advocating Guard CC by means of using allies and all them guns to cripple the enemy before your mob of flunkies finish them, that's a whole lot different from saying "Straken and blobs will win assaults ololol!!one1!"

[Zombie Savant]

@ CKO: That's fair enough, but likewise, every unit has its foils. Sure, templates will do a lot of damage to us, but so will pie-plates to just about any non-TEQ unit in the game. Saying that flamers will destroy guard is true, but it's like saying that powerweapons will destroy terminators, so don't take them, they're not competitive. The argument that I'm trying to make is that close-combat is now a viable element of an Imperial Guard army that can support the rest of the force, where it never was before. Call it anecdotal, but I've had very good successes in competitive games with a setup that favored a Close-Combat approach. I've also had very good success with more conventional armies as well, I was just trying to share my opinions on how you can make a CC-oriented guard list.

@Chumbalaya: There's no need to patronize, and what you're bringing up here is semantics. I've given several examples of how actual standard guard units can compete in close-combat. I will agree that Str 3 and T 3 models do not an assault army make, but that's not what guard are anymore. There are a lot of options to improve the way they assault now, and it's worth considering. Just because it may not be the best possible setup in our codex doesn't make it less viable (Do chaos armies have to choose only Lash Princes, because it's the best thing they can do?). So sure, you're right, saying that I need to weaken elements of the opposing force before I assault is true, but almost every army out there has this requirement. Even Chaos Daemons have shooting units, and for good reason -- you can't do everything in assault, even in the most assualt-centric army in the game.

Straken and blobs can win assaults -- they're not nearly as point and click as some armies assault units, but it can be done. All I would like is for people to explore the options that rules give them, and that includes exploring the inquisitorial units.

[twomas_rox]

I am a big fan of the Senior Officer, Lascannon, 2x Snipers. Keep them behind my lines issueing orders and trying to shoot things from way back using that BS4.

As for my Platoon Officers...
JO w/ 4xFlamers works well for me..

[Chumbalaya]

Lash Princes? Welcome to 5th edition.

Daemons are garbage because of their assault bend, if they had a way to deal with vehicles they would be better (still crippled by their stupid deployment).

Allies definitely open up a lot of options for Guard, but CC Guard is nowhere near as effective as mech or even a gunline. It's a fun build, viable even, but hardly optimal. Go with what works for you, that's what friendlies are all about. When it's tourney time, I'll stick with my guns and tanks.

[StrikerFox]

wow, i dont know what happened, but for a moment it seemed as if zombie savant was ranting to himself...

but in anycase, zombie does make a very vaild point in using mobs to your advantage instead of tooling your command squads to high points costs..

i can validate this, as i had a squad of 10 zerkers get beat down to a man, but 2 squads of guardsment, and i think it was a JO with a PW.
honestly, just regular power weapons can do the trick.. it IS however a matter of hitting and yes, wounding..
BUT as it was pointed out, it CAN be done..

maybe a vet with a fist here and there can be used..

the couple lists i have come up with, again, for the command squads themselves, are really cheap. i would rather spend the extra points in making another squad just that much more killy.. XD

[crazyredpraetorian]

I am a big fan of the Senior Officer, Lascannon, 2x Snipers. Keep them behind my lines issueing orders and trying to shoot things from way back using that BS4.

As for my Platoon Officers...
JO w/ 4xFlamers works well for me..

I use that build out on my SO quite a bit. But, I also almost always use the same buildout on my JO. I use the JO to give First Rank orders to my static troops. Then use the Bring It Down order on my Heavy Squad and the JO.

[Zombie Savant]

wow, i dont know what happened, but for a moment it seemed as if zombie savant was ranting to himself...

but in anycase, zombie does make a very vaild point in using mobs to your advantage instead of tooling your command squads to high points costs..

i can validate this, as i had a squad of 10 zerkers get beat down to a man, but 2 squads of guardsment, and i think it was a JO with a PW.
honestly, just regular power weapons can do the trick.. it IS however a matter of hitting and yes, wounding..
BUT as it was pointed out, it CAN be done..

maybe a vet with a fist here and there can be used..

the couple lists i have come up with, again, for the command squads themselves, are really cheap. i would rather spend the extra points in making another squad just that much more killy.. XD

Hahaha, it seems like the person I was "debating" with had some posts deleted.

I see you mentioned using vets, but I can't seem to figure out how to use them in this case. You're paying an extra 20 points for BS4 no matter what, which quite obviously has no benefit in assault... the only bonus I can see is taking 3 flamers, but a command squad with 4 is going to be cheaper and more effective. I don't think the addition of a power-fist is going to be worth it for the extra points, and the doctrines likewise don't improve the lads in assault.

Also, I think with just plain power weapons, things like Furious Charge or an attached priest really do the trick. Moreover, I think that your command squad philosophy is the way to go. They're too squishy to put a lot of points into.