GIANT 40k/WFB Rumordump - WARNING NaCl ALERT!!!

[Bigred]

Here is apparently the source of several rumors that have been going around the last day or so.

This is a MONSTER rumor skreed from an [URL="http://pastebin.com/nuQjjumt"]anonymous poster on Pastebin[/URL]

Proceed with extreme caution - you have been warned!

Yes, one ruleset for both systems, but each rulebook is still written individually with whole sections skipped or altered (i.e. obviously no tanks for fantasy). The text is certainly not a copy and paste job with differently flavoured examples but individually crafted for each system. Some rules have the same function but different names. You wouldn’t expect the rules to apply to the other system if you had only one rulebook to judge. There is are no labels that say “Here ends the generic rule section. The following is 40k specific”. In the fantasy rules everything is explained through the eyes of units in tight formation which do not exist in 40k. Skirmish units are the exception to the rule in fantasy, where in 40k everything is in skirmish formation and everything is explained that way from the get go. There isn’t even a name for this formation, it is just the default. But if every unit in fantasy would be skirmishers, it wouldn’t matter if you play the game with the 40k or fantasy rules. Everything would work exactly the same.

Another example: units in formation do not get +1 A on the charge, so this bonus is not mentioned until fighting in skirmish formation is introduced. In the 40k rulebook, the bonus is mentioned right in the assault section - not as an exception, but as the rule because there are no other formations in 40k. Different way to introduce it, but the same outcome if you play fantasy with all skirmishers.

90:10. Fantasy adapts more 40k elements than vice versa. 40k is only a minor update, Fantasy is a major shakeup and the army books stay only barely viable.

Certainly. But I hope this will die down eventually like the random charge distance controversy.

The most irritating is definitely that you can start with two units facing each other directly, move your unit in the movement phase into the enemy’s side arc and charge the unit in the assault phase. Even though the enemy can change its facing to take the charge head on, it turns the whole positioning game upside down. Fantasy is still all about good unit placement, unit synergy and manoeuvres, but it all plays out very differently.

All infantry units move 6”. There are no movement values anymore.

That’s the only one. Units have an armour save profile now, but this is mostly coherent with the old system - only shields work a little bit different now. The old calculated system is even explained in the armoury section. It is more beginner-friendly now. The armour saves are simply precalculated now.

R.I.P.

The rules are 99,99% the same as in 40k. If you come from 40k you can play fantasy with minimal effort.

A major one for both system is, that you march/run in the movement phase and charge in the melee phase.

No, even more random. Fantasy uses the 40k system, but there are not so many different kinds of random movement. Random movement is either D6” or 2D6”, with same rules adding or subtracting dice from the pool. You always discards the lowest ones. There is a reminder that rolls are doubled afterwards, but I don’t remember any instance where this is relevant.

Basic 6” movement for infantry including monstrous infantry and monsters. Cavalry is 12” Movement now. March is D6”. Charge is 2D6”. Consolidations are, “two D6, pick one”. Retreats are normal march moves, so 6+D6”.

Terrain subtracts one D6 from the pool to a minimum of 1. Normal movement changes from 6” to “roll 2D6 and pick one” in inches. Moves in the assault/melee phase are never affected by difficult terrain, so charges are always D6”+D6”.

Since run is only one D6” it is not affected by terrain. units with fleet and move through cover can roll two D6 and pick one.

No, a charge through terrain can cause dangerous terrain tests and affects the Initiative in both systems now.

Fleet adds one D6 to all random pools and you can pick one. Move through cover cancels difficult terrain, but not other kinds of terrain. Strider cancels dangerous and difficult terrain completely.

Yes, Fleet lets you roll three dice for movement trough terrain, two dice for march and three for charge. It also influences Consolidations.

After a combat if you are no longer bound. You can use this move to charge other units or to spread out. But consolidations are only allowed in your own turn.

Cavalry is not hindered by terrain but must make dangerous terrain tests. 12” moves are never replaced with a random one as far as I can see. They either ignore difficult terrain completely or treat it as dangerous.

Flee reaction is a normal retreat. You let the enemy move into contact and break from the combat at the start of the melee phase. It works as if you had lost a combat, but at the start of the phase. You use the 40k rules, so have to win a I roll-off to flee. You move unit 6”+D6” immediately after breaking. If the charging unit pursuits and you are caught, the unit is destroyed. In either case the enemy unit can make a consolidation and even fight a new combat this phase.

Yes, it is back.

Yes, it is still in. 12” now and still a ld-roll required. One of the cases where 40k steals a fantasy rule.

Yes and no. You are right, the dwarf rule would be pointless otherwise, but this isn’t a criteria. There are dozens of rules, even in the Wood Elf army book, that become obsolete.

Yes, the dancers for example.

Retreating units simply march in consecutive turns.

Ogres are faster than Dwarfs. Units with monstrous (It’s a special rule and not a unit type now) have the Fleet rule, formerly known as Swiftstride.

Swiftstride is still a special rule, but it only reads “gives the unit fleet”. In 10th edition it is likely gone.

Only if the 40k term fits the fantasy setting.

Dangerous terrain is auto-wound on 1. All units can stalk and replace movement with 1D6” and ignore dangerous terrain during the move or march.

Yes, both systems. Everything affects both systems. Run is the same as march but with a different name. I don’t state this explicitly.

Charging through terrain gives a unit -2 I in both systems. There are no assault grenade equivalents in fantasy, but units with spears attack with +2 I in the first round of combat. But terrain doesn’t slow a charge anymore.

To be frank, I don’t remember, it’s 40k. I think they negate the bonus and don’t give +2 flat out..

Yes, they move equally fast through terrain, but jump infantry don’t have to test for dangerous terrain. It’s not faster but safer.

There are no jump troops in fantasy. But in 40k, they can use the skyborne rule in every phase, but must make dangerous terrain tests if they start or end their movement in terrain. They can choose to move like infantry. But they do not get the impact hits if they don’t use their packs in the assault phase. So it’s basically back to 5th edition.

Manoeuvre rules are really simple. Units in formation move as if they were a single model. The unit pivots on the spot and moves in any way it likes even sideways, but cannot move though other models. A charge with a block is a little bit more complicated.

You charge in the melee phase, so can use the movement phase to bring the unit in position. You roll the distance and check if you can reach the enemy. If you are and the enemy chooses stand & shoot, you resolve the shooting and the enemy unit aligns with the charging unit if the terrain and other units permit it. Then you move the unit into contact. The movement distance doesn’t matter.

Yes, there are other restrictions. you have to charge the facing you were after the pivot of the defending unit, so most of the time the front. You have to attack with your front. You have to bring as many enemy and friendly models into contact as possible. You have to move the shortest way possible.

I think directly towards your centre, but he can avoid this if he chooses Hold reaction. There is no closing the gap, because you align the unit directly during the move.

Hold works only for units in a tight formation, so only in fantasy.

There are rules for charging in loose formation. It is basically the same but with more models. The defender doesn’t align. There are 6” pile-in moves if the charged unit is a skirmish unit.

No, skirmishers don’t have to remain in the front facing. If a model in the side is the nearest one, it can be charged. The facing rule is only for blocks.

Units in loose formation move exactly like 40k units, both during a charge and the pile-in move.

Before the charge move, you can move your unit in the movement phase into position.

No, pivots do not cost movement. Units move like a large single model, and single models can pivot freely.

The fantasy rules do not care for exact or long-winded movements anymore, as long as the rules are kept simple. If the outcome looks sufficiently authentic, who cares for micromanaging every inch? I am sure the design team is aware of this, there is a box that gives some in-character explanations for seemingly impossible maneuvers.

If the defender cannot align and the attacker cannot be placed in the front because the unit would collide with a building or something, the attacking unit botched its charge, loses its formation. You then use the 40k rules and move the models one by one. A unit without formation is doomed in combat.

He don’t have to. The unit can Hold and retain its position, but cannot stand and shoot in this case. It can only hold if all involved units are in tight formation.

40k units can only Stand and Fire, which does not have a name in 40k because it is kind of the default, or Flee. Only blocks can Hold.

Yes, a single unit cannot flank no matter where it is positioned. But they can deny stand and shoot, which has no range limitation anymore. But the positioning works as an implicit range limitation. If the enemy is close enough to pseudo-flank you in the movement phase, it is a good indicator that he was near enough that you are not be able to fire.

Shooter has to win roll-off D6+leader’s I in order to shoot at attacker. This is also true for overwatch, which is the same as stand and shoot btw. Wounds do not count towards combat resolution.

If the roll is equal you can shoot.

If the enemy tries to crab walk out of your front arc, you move your unit in the movement phase to face him again and charge him in the melee phase. If he hides somewhere where you cannot see him even after a move, you cannot charge him.

Units in loose formation do not have arcs.

Blocks still have to see the enemy at the start of the melee phase to charge. In most situations this is trivial, but if you want to charge another unit during a consolidation, it becomes an issue.

But it won’t do you any good, because he can attack you from 4 ranks/files if he is in formation and you are not. Units in loose formation are easy to manoeuvre, but there is a reason that units fight in tight formation. They are better suited for combat. If a unit in a block attacks a unit in loose formation, every model in contact and in 2” of a model in contact can fight. That means 4 row on a 25mm base, even to the side. If the unit in loose formation attacks the front, only models in contact and models in contact with a fighter can attack. That means the equivalent of 2 rows at best. So, the unit in formation has approximately double the attacks.

No, there is a difference between loose formation and skirmish formation. Every unit can assume a 40k-like 2” distance-no facing-formation at any time: loose formation. But there are some drawbacks. If fighting against other unit, every model in 2” of a fighting model can attack you if you are in loose formation. Against a block of 20 Black Guard thats 40 attacks coming your way. Skirmishers are better at fighting without formation than usual units and have a front to all directions. There is a distinction between a proper formation -even if it is a light one- and no formation at all. You have to protect your flanks from them, because if there is a skirmisher in your side, all his buddies in 2” can attack.

Ok, let me explain it another way: Even if skirmishers look like a horde, they fight in a coordinated fashion. They form primitive shield walls and support each other. Skirmisher are deployed in loose formation. Skirmishers have a 360 degree front arc, they can use their weapons and shields in all directions and can only be attacked by two ranks. Skirmishers get +1 Attack when they charge other skirmishers or units in loose formation. They don’t have to see an enemy they want to charge.

Units in loose formation have no facings. They can see 360 degree. They cannot use shields and other weapons to their full potential and can always be attacked by all models in 2” behind the first rank, so usually 4 ranks of infantry and 3 ranks of cavalry and monstrous infantry.

Yeah, my mistake. I might have used the terms loose formation and skirmish formation interchangeably which they are not.

Fighting without a formation has some advantages, though. You don’t have facing and can charge in any direction and are better protected against mortars.

In our world not.If there were as many dragons, warp flame throwers and skull catapults in our history, loose formation would have been used way earlier.

Only blocks with an enemy in their front facing benefit from this. If you get flanked by a large unit, all models in 2” of the first row can attack you, but you can only attack back with two rows because you are in his front facing while he is not.

Skirmish is a special rule. Every unit can fight in loose formation, but skirmishers get the advantages I mentioned yesterday. And I like to add one important thing - units without the skirmish rule must re-roll all successful panic tests and do not benefit from the battle standard bearer or the general..

No, it is just me. I am not good at this it seems. It is really easy: If you attack the front of a regiment, two ranks attack. If you attack anything else (side, rear, loose formation), everything in 2” of a fighting model attacks.

Yes, only units in formation and certain unit types (monsters and buildings in fantasy, vehicles in 40k) have facings.

If a model or unit has facings or arc, it is 90 degree from base edges or if it has no square base the centre of the model.

Yes, I think 40k vehicles, too.

There are four formations in fantasy and no formations in 40k. Skirmish units in fantasy behave exactly like a 40k unit. They get +1 attack on the charge against other skirmishers, their facing doesn’t matter, they shoot in all directions, etc.

No.

Block, Wedge, Turtle and Skirmish.

Block is your standard block. 5-15 wide and as deep as you like.

No, you cannot form a conga line, it has to be 5 wide. If there is a bottleneck, you can forfeit your formation and move in loose formation past the obstacle. You can reform at the start of your turn if you pass a ld-test or automatically if you have a musician.

Wedge is like the Bretonnian lance formation, but you only get ranks from rows that are at least 5 wide. You need 15 models to form even a single rank. All models in the front triangle that have an opposite enemy model can attack. But only the front models, there are never supporting attacks from models in 2” or models in contact in wedge formation. There are no side arcs and you get a bonus to break through the enemy formation.

Yes, you can. Normally, if you cause twice as many wounds as there are enemy ranks, you make a S-roll-off. If you win, the enemy loses his formation and will suffer next round of combat as a result. Units in wedge formation only need to deal more wounds than the number of ranks to force this test.

The best S value without weapon modifiers.

Both sides can lose their formation at the same time. The combat has obviously dissolved into a butchering at this point.

Yes, there are many roll-offs now.

For roll-offs and tests you can always use the profile value of the champion or the best character just like a leadership test. If there is no character, you take the best value of the normal models. For to-wound purposes you still use the majority straight away.

Yes, I was a little bit sloppy there.

Turtle is a square formation (or as square as possible) that cannot move. Rank is equal to number of rings with five or more models. There is only a front facing.

Only at the start of the movement phase. Ld-test required except you have a musician. Breaking up your formation is easier. You can do that at any time without ld-test.

Tired, sore fingers.

That’s hard. I guess the new movement rules, the weapon profiles, the combat resolution, the different formations and the shooting rules. On the one hand fantasy is a whole new game, on the other hand, it is surprisingly similar to 8th edition. Some things are resolved differently, but the result is often the same. The balance is shattered, though.

Weapons have a more detailed profile now. A high strength does not modify the armour save by itself. But lot of weapons have armour save modifiers, called piercing. These are not AP values, they do not negate armour. This is one of the major differences that still exist between fantasy and 40k. The rules for the weapon types have changed considerably, some weapons like the spear do not resemble their 8th edition counterpart at all.

I can do that for the basic weapons, but there are too many weapons in 9th edition to recall them all. An imperial bihander is not the same as a giant choppa rulewise. There are obviously lots of orc and empire weapons in the rulebook. There are only a dozen weapons from other races, mainly those that needed an update. Slayer weapons are +1S, Piercing -2, two-handed and bows of avelorn are always -1 Piercing for example.

Hand weapon: Parry (improves shield ward save by one), Spear: Piercing -1, Reach (+2 Initiative in first round of combat against front), Spearwall (additional piercing -1 against charging cavalry, war beasts, flying units in front), Halberd is +1S, Piercing -1, Spearwall, two-handed, Two-hand weapon +2S, Piercing -1, two handed, this is only the generic weapon, there are two-handed swords, axes, hammers, scythes and pikes, all with different profiles

Flail +2S, two handed, lance: +2 S, Piercing -3, in round of charge or in any round against loose formation, cavalry spear: +1S, Piercing -2, in round of charge or in any round against loose formation. There are many more weapons, often variants of the basic weapons.

There is enough room for another charge.

Yes.

Yes, no additional attacks for spears, that’s only for pikes.

No, parry is not cumulative with other ward saves. And ward saves cannot be taken in addition to armour saves in 9th edition.

There are 8 pages of weapons, most of them generic to fit into any army, but some are obviously race specific. In addition there are magic weapons, but there is no general distinction between a mundane weapon and a magic weapon, except that the latter has the magic rule.

Take the Middenheimer for example. It is a two-handed weapon with S+3 without piercing. It is not a magic weapon, but can be bought by all character models with access to the general armoury. If an ogre takes one, it causes instant death with it, so it is very powerful, but not magic.

Pikes are two handed spears with an additional rank attacking to the front.

It is the same as the 40k rule, but the rule has changed a little bit. It now works for all weapons with S 8,9 and 10 against all models with T 5 or lower.

There are still weapons that cause D6 wounds, yes.

True. Armour saves are good, but I listed only the basic weapons. There are other counters. Orcs and the empire both have weapons that are good at killing knights - bihanders and tusk spears for example. And units with the monstrous weapons get -2 and flaming gives an additional -1 against cavalry, war beasts, monsters and flying units.

Monstrous weapons are Piercing -2 and monstrous two-handers are S+1, Piercing -3, two-handed. I don’t know if all monstrous infantry units get them on release, but trolls and rat ogres get them definately.

I answer the first question later. Unit types are a huge topic. For the second part:
The strength of a magic spell does not reduce armour. The spell lores stay exactly the same. You can bomb a unit of knights with your fancy S5 spell, but he still saves on a 2+ - except for the lore of fire against cav.

Magic is pretty much unchanged as a whole. There is no magic phase anymore. You generate the power dice at the start of the turn and use spells whenever the card say it is used, or at the end of the movement phase if not specified. If you use more dice than your level, you can miscast but it does not give the spell total energy. There is a new spell type. Spells that are used in the enemy’s turn. You cast them in your turn, but keep the card on the table. If your wizard lives, he can use the spell without any further roll or risk of getting banned. There are rules for sorcerous covens, units of mages.

Yes, 40k uses the exact same ruleset but with different names. The psychic powers use warp charges, where every point is equal to complexity 4. There are no complexity 5 or 6 or 13 powers, only multiples of 4 - because 4 is the number of chaos gods -dundundundunnnnnn.

That is not a problem, because psychic powers can target different units - warp sight is different from eye sight. The same is true for spells.

If you play large games, above 3000 points, you roll twice for the dice generation. Above 6000 you roll thrice, etc.

No, you roll two dice, the higher is the number of dispel dice. Then you roll another 2D6 and the higher of these two is added to the dispel pool.

No, bowmen can’t shoot a unit and charge afterwards. There are 40k-like weapon types now. Bows and similar weapons have their own weapon type that doesn’t have an 40k equivalent. They work like rapid fire weapons without the double tap. There is no equivalent in 40k. In addition, their volley fire allows them to fire every rank without snapfire, not just the first two. Can fire indirectly at unit that is visible to another friendly unit, but uses the snapfire rule for this.

You cannel only once.

Quick to fire = rapid fire. Stand & Fire = heavy weapons, including the move and snapfire rule. Pistols are pistols. Throwing weapons are assault weapons. There are no salvo weapons in fantasy.

Yes, they retain their fantasy names.

Pistols use their profile in the first round of combat and count as a normal (additional) hand weapons afterwards. I don’t think there are specific rules for a pair of pistols, but I may remember this wrong.

Snapfire is -3 BS now.

Yes, modifiers are part of both systems, but 40k does not use them that much.

No, boyz hit on a 6 still. A 6 is always a success.

Always.

There is no re-roll for BS6+. But the 1 is always miss and 6 is always success rule applies to every roll. As long as you have an armour save, you can roll and hope for a 6, even if it was modified into oblivion. A 6 represents pure luck.

No, if something is negated, as the lascannon does with the Ork armour, there is no roll, so you can’t save with a 6.

Ok, give me a minute, I will explain this in detail.

Weapons in fantasy have the same profile as in 40k but without an AP column. Some weapons have the Piercing rule,which gives an -1 armour save modifier or if it is Piercing (-2) a -2 modifier, .... There is no extra column for Piercing, it’s a special rule like volley fire that is listed at the end of the profile. There are fewer to-hit modifiers, snapfire is -3. There are no movement or long range modifiers anymore and the multiple shot value is listed in brackets behind the weapon type and does not reduce the BS either. Units can move and shoot without penalty. There is a +1 modifier for large targets. Cover modifiers are replaced with cover saves.

In 40k there is even a +1 modifier for super large vehicles.

Correct.

For normal units, the total armour save is not calculated. Units have a fixed armour save profile value that is not modified by anything except certain magic items before the battle. Heroes come with their own set of armour. Imperial heroes come with a 5+ armour - no matter whether they are mounted or not. This can be upgraded to a full plate armour (3+) or imperial knight armour (1+) if they are mounted. Bardings are simply part of this set, you cannot buy them seperately and they do not lower the movement - cavalry moves 12”. Period. Being mounted does nothing for your armour save, neither in 40k nor in fantasy. It simply changes your unit type to cavalry and some mounts like boars give you an extra attack in your profile. There is a box in the rulebook however that explains the old system because you need it for the heroes of the older army books. You still combine light/heavy armour, mount and barding - but you don’t take shields into consideration. Shields are totally different now.

Shields give three rules: they confer a 4+ armour save against shooting from the front arc, that is used if it is better than the normal armour save and can be modified normally. They give a 6+ ward save in melee against all sides. And wielders deal a single impact hits with their profile strength. There are different kinds of shields, but this is the basic setup.

It is counterweighted by the fact, that S4 units do not reduce your save by -1 anymore.

Keep in mind that you can roll your armour save roll even if the armour save was modified to 7+ or 12+. A 6 is a success. And ward saves cannot be taken in addition to normal saves, so the 6++ does almost nothing except when you combine it with a hand weapon and get a 5++.

That’s only the basic shield. Long shields give 3+ against shooting. And metal shields in combination with a hand weapon are scary, because combined they give a 4+ ward save.

Yes, it is a lot, but the army books stay valid. They get a FAQ each. But they weren’t on my desk yet and usually do not end up here anyway. A few weapons and armour sets are covered in the rule book. Gromril armour is power armour now for example. Magic stays the same except some minor tweaks in the form of designer notes, but only in the rulebook, not on the actual cards.

That is a myth. That is not how it works. All codices are solely written for the edition they are released for.

No, there is no army list, but a reference section that gives the armour save and unit type for every unit.

As far as I can tell, everything stays exactly as it is, except for units with upgradable wargear. If a unit had a 4+ save for heavy armour and shield, it likely still has a 4+ and the shield bonus on top of it.

No, units with a shield as an option only get their basic armour. The shield upgrade confers the usual shield boni, but does not improve the armour save.

Your knights are 2+ because the rulebook says so. Imperial knights are 1+ because their army book says so. Your heroes are 3+ because heavy amour 5+, mount +1 amd barding +1 = 3+. If you get them a shield, they get a 6++. Knights have shields on top of their 2+ armour. I don’t know if your heroes get 2+ via errata. It would make sense though.
.
The balance is gone, but the army books will catch up and there are other ways to speed up the process.

Unfortunately, I can’t, sorry.

Skaven, not Bretonnians.

Yes, but not right after Empire. The third release is a campaign book. It covers several special units, regiments of renown, including some Bretonnian Knights.

Likely.

They are unique units, sometimes upgraded units of existing ones, sometimes truly unique ones. They can be fielded as normal units in their army or as allies in other armies. They are also stop-gaps for outdated army books (without invalidating the existing units). Your Bretonnians get crusading knights.

The campaign is set in the border princes. There is a huge focus on this region even in the main rulebook.

Khemri, Vampire counts, Bretonnians, Dwarfs and Skaven. Skaven and Khemri are the main focus. Other armies play their role, but do not get units.

Arkhan tries to conquer the ruins of Nagashizzar.

I don’t know. There is nothing on my desk that would suggest this, but it might happen anyway.

This is well into 2015, let’s keep it at that.

No problem.

No, the story get not advanced. We do not do this - ever. This might be fun for some time, but eventually you end up with “menace of the month” creep and destroy your scenario. But we are doing something similar.

The background stays the same. But the focus is more on the border princes. It’s the only region that is described in detail and the a huge part of the history and backstory is written around this land. There is also a huge emphasis on the consequences of the war: razed cities, desolate lands. The history takes the spotlight away from the nearly successful, but ultimately meaningless conquests to wars that really destroyed cities, provinces or whole civilizations. The good vs. evil scheme isn’t central (rulewise it doesn’t exists at all) and the writers go out of their way to explain unusual alliances. Another theme is that the old world is full of scumbags, explorers, wannabe conquerors and ambitious lesser nobles that have the means to rise their own armies because their is no shortage of mercenaries and weapon supplies in a world locked in never ending war. It is not all about the grand army of the high king or elector count, but also about armies of robber barons, mercenary princes and exiled generals. The writing team gives you the room to build your own army background.

The rulebook describes the scenario of the world without limiting you to a specific time you have to set your games in. All the major events are described up to the crowning of Karl Franz whioch is the last chronological entry.

From now on, all campaign books and army books are set 20-ish years in the past. Each new book is set a bit later than the last one and advances the story. Special character rules so far are generally written for this time frame if the model allows it. Karl Franz is very inexperienced and belittled by the court.

His crowning is a major event in the army book too, but his coming of age arc is not resolved yet. There is no hint in the army book that he becomes an accomplished statesman and general eventually, but the next army books will likely pick this plot thread up. All the books are interwoven with each other and there is a series of our novels that tie into the chronology.

I don’t know of it alters the history of the last 20 years in any meaningful way. There is a certain element of retcon for sure, but so far nothing game changing has happened. I think we haven’t heard of Azhag’s tribal unification wars and his waaagh in the east yet, but it doesn’t contradict his established background - at least as far as I can tell. The whole cycle might well end with Archaon’s invasion as you would expect, but I don’t know and it will take a decade to reach these events at the current pace.

Yes, we have worked towards this for the last five years at least. We have one very accomplished editor under contract that handles the novels in addition to our team. We want the novels to stand on their own feet and have a broader appeal.

We like to think about them not as warhammer novels, but novels that happen to be set in the warhammer world.

I don’t know. I knew him, but this is my job. But I won’t spoil the surprise.

Yes, but I am involved with this directly.

So, you want me to keep my mouth shut?

Very bad if not outright evil!

At least one novel to accompany every army book.

There is nothing bad about copying a successful strategy, especially if it is well liked by the customers.

Fans!

Bon appetite.

Shooting is more deadly against units without shields. You get covers saves, but only if you occupy terrain. Fortress battlements give 3+, hard cover 4+ and soft cover 5+.

EVERYTHING is the same. But this is not what I meant. You get cover saves for terrain that you are not in contact with, but if a block is only partially hidden by a tower, the enemy can fire at the exposed models without cover saves. And blocks cannot take cover.

Oh, I didn’t know.

It’s a shooting reaction like the 40k going to the ground.

Blocks can’t take cover, but units in loose formation can. They get +1 on the cover save. Blocks have their own, unique shooting reaction: brace. They have to make a panic test only if they lose 50% of their wounds, but if that’s not enough to avoid a test, they re-roll successful ones just like units in loose formation.

All units have one or more shooting reactions available to them, tied to their unit type. Some units get their unique shooting reactions. For example, militias can disperse when they are hit by a blast weapon, they move some inches and give up their formation.

No, they do not get cover saves. If you fire through an intervening unit, the target unit is shrouded. Units in formation block the line of sight but only if they are tall enough. It’s true line of sight. Otherwise they are intervening units.

Shrouded is a -2 modifier to BS. And blast weapons cannot roll a hit.

Fantasy units can take cover, but there is no pinning special rule. The effects of take cover are the same as going to ground.

Stealth is +1 cover save or a 6+ in the open.

Skirmishers don’t get their usual -1, but they get the benefits of shields against attacks from every direction.

There are lots of changes. Units under half strength cannot rally, panic cannot spread to other units in 6” and break tests are totally different.

You don’t add the casualties to the rank bonus and standards to get the combat result . If you cause more wounds than the enemy, you win the combat. The leadership is modified by the casualty difference. But if you control the unit in the combat with the most ranks, you are still steadfast.

Standards count as an additional casualty for this purpose. They cannot be captured anymore, btw.

You try to charge the chaos block with two or more medium or large blocks of your peasants. The rules make it easy to set up a flanking charge with one of the units. Then the block in the flank can attack with all models. It is no longer “clever manoeuvring leads directly to victory” but “clever manoeuvring leads to more damage output leads to victory”.

Flank attacks do not give a bonus to the combat resolution and they don’t negate the rank bonus. But they negate weapons like spears that work only against the front. And they let you attack with all models in 2”.

Indeed, damage is everything.

Ranks are only important for three things: steadfast for break tests, to see if you lose your formation and rank bonus. Rank bonus is a skaven-like special rule that depends on the number of ranks. The default is that a unit that has two or more ranks get +1 on psychology tests - psychology is now every ld-test that is not a panic test or break test: proximity, fear, frenzy, stupidity, etc.

But it looks like all armies get their individual rank bonus, sometimes even individual units.

No, not a flat-out bonus to ld, that’s only for skaven. Units from the empire get +1 to hit in melee if they have three ranks or more because they are drilled to fight in large blocks. Flagellants get their own rank bonus, their melee attacks are concussive if they have three or more ranks.

Only one rank bonus. The rank bonus in an army book replaces the rally bonus.

Yes

If your enemy breaks, you can charge another unit in your front arc. Alternatively you can give up your formation and charge in any direction. Frenzied units must give up their formation if this is the only way to charge another enemy. The enemy can react in the normal way.

It’s a consolidation, so one out of two D6”

Stand & Shoot is the default option. You have to win an Initiative roll-off in order to shoot and all the 40k overwatch rules apply. You have to be able to see the enemy somewhere during his movement. For units in loose formation this is trivial, but blocks that are attacked from the side or rear cannot shoot. And if a part of your unit hides behind a building, this part cannot fire. The shots are resolved at -3 BS.

Units in a formation can choose Hold. They cannot shoot, but if they win a S roll-off, they can choose not to close the gap to the enemy and let the enemy do the wheeling. Obviously this isn’t an option in 40k. Units can flee in both systems. You move the attacking unit as normal. Then you make an Initiative roll-off. If the fleeing unit loses it is destroyed or whatever happens if it breaks from a combat. If the unit escapes it flees as normal, the attacker stays in place and can make a random consolidation up to 6” and tie up another unit. Blocks cannot pursuit, so it is likely that the fleeing unit escapes. Astartes and fearless units cannot flee.

Yes, if a unit loses a combat and flees, there is a 40k-esque I-roll-off too to see if the fleeing unit is destroyed, but units in block, wedge or turtle formation cannot pursuit. They have to give up their formation in order to catch the losing unit. Skirmishers with high I are very deadly if they win a combat and keep in mind that you use the I of any character that is with the unit.

You can decide that at any time. If you cannot combine this with a move, you put the last rank in disorder or something similar to show that the unit is no longer in formation. But you have to decide before you roll to pursuit.

Units move towards their own board edge.

Yes, 40k units can flee.

When you sweeping advance into another unit, the unit can stand and shoot again. The combat is resolved in the next phase except when this happens because of a flee reaction. In the theory one unit can destroy a whole army if all enemy units are clumped together and choose flee every time..

Before pile-ins.

It’s also like 40k now. You move towards your own table edge. At the start of your phase you can rally if you are above half strength at the same time that you try to regain or change a formation.

It’s your normal march move. Fast cavalry has Feigned Flight. They rally instantly and are not destroyed if they are caught, just bound in combat.

In addition to feigned flight, fast cavalry has the scout, hit & run, parting shot and relentless rules.

You distribute the wounds from near to far. Champions have to take a wound, but get a Look out roll and cannot be singled out in combat except in a challenge. Musicians and standards work in the same way, they can use Lookout, too.

You can fill the gaps at your initiative step, but the enemy can’t enter your formation. That would have been cool though. You always fill up the ranks of a block at the end of a phase.

Yes, when you pile-in, you can change to loose formation and move to the side arc. But you don’t have to. There are not many situations where this would be beneficiary.

There are circumstances where you are forced to give up your tight formation: If the enemy breaks through your formation, if you cannot place the unit in terrain, if your frenzied units want to charge the next enemy, etc.

Terrain is much simpler now. There are no random charts anymore in the normal rules. You buy mystic terrain or define an existing piece of terrain to be of a certain kind. Most pieces of terrain have more benefits than drawbacks, so you want to use terrain in your games, but you don’t have to. You cannot enter buildings in the default missions, but you can buy towers and fortified mansions with their own defenders, who can shoot out by themselves, but cannot leave. There are rules for castle walls, towers and other fortifications, too. You can place models on them, but not in them.

This is a large can of worms!

You can take allies in fantasy. There is a matrix just like 40k. There is a visible good/evil divide but not as strict as before. There are only three instead of four levels. Dark Elves can ally with the human factions for example.

There are no retcons, at least no glaring ones. Dark Elves and High Elves still hate each other and cannot ally. But Dark Elves can ally with almost all of the other armies. And High Elves aren’t far behind in this department and can ally with beastmen, vampires and orcs. Dark Elves are very good diplomats and the lesser races are easily lured into an alliance. Afterall, in order to be treacherous, there had to be an alliance of some kind to betray. The seaguard of lothern is described as being very pragmatic when they are abroad. When they are on Ulthuan they can be noble and good mannered elves who would never barter with an orc chieftain. But if they are on a foreign shore with no reinforcements at hand they don’t have this luxury and do strike deals with local savages.

Yes, it is very open. There is eternal war, but the alliances are shifting constantly.

The background doesn’t change, but there is a minor tonal shift. Battles with unusual allies are mentioned throughout the book.

For example, a whole double page describes the secession of Marienburg and how several regiments didn’t choose a side, but became freelancers instead. There is a formerly unknown mercenary skaven clan mentioned called liietch that can be hired by the highest bidder. There is a story where several elector counts have tried to rise freemen in Sylvania to bolster their own state troops. It turned out, that most of them were dead all along and finally turned on their allies. There is a precedent for a temporary empire / necromantic alliance even if it was not very successful.

There are lots of these anecdotes. You are really encouraged to come out of your comfort zone. Both rulebooks are very narrative driven. There are several boxes of flavour text that describe a rule in effect, in-character from the eyes of a soldier.

For example, the frenzy rule is accomplished by a historical anecdote of a witch elf unit that has butchered it’s way through a wood elf army until they ignored the command of their dreadlord and charged into a wood of treekins to never be seen again.

Skaven can ally with almost every army except lizardmen and some of the elves.

Why wouldn’t they? The skaven have used a human king to assassinate Nagash afterall. They can work towards a common goal if it is in their short term interest.

Dwarfs/High Elves/Lizardmen and Chaos Daemons and Dwarfs/Empire/Bretonnians and Orcs are still archenemies.

Beastmen can ally with all armies except bretonnia and wood elves.

Bretonnians and the empire can ally with warriors of chaos.

You can spend up to 25% of your points on secondary forces. Allies, regiments of renown, fortifications and mystic terrain are part of this category. You can only take allies from a single army book, including your own, and they count against both the limits for their category and the secondary force limit. You can mix regiments, towers and terrain as you like and they only count against the secondary budget.

Chaos Dwarfs are part of the matrix, but don’t read anything into it, please.

You have the option to take units from your own list because you can change your secondary contingent before the game. You can prepare up to three army lists, but the main contingent has to be the same.

That’s cynical.

You bring a 750 point list and three 250 point secondary lists to a 1000 point game. 800 points/ 3x 200 points would be ok, too. But 600/ 3x400 would not.

Of course you can opt out, but this is clearly how the design team wants us to pursue our hobby.

You can do this before you meet up for the game. We live in the digital age after all.

No, you cannot mix your own units and units from an allied army list as part of your secondary forces. Only one ally is allowed. In 40k, you can combine an ally with formations from other codices, but there are no formations in fantasy.

The secondary detachment or force can consist of one ally and as many other units, formations, titans, etc that are not labeled as an ally.

There are no regiments of renown at release date except of the units from storm of magic. There is a list of armies they are available for, but you have to get storm of magic to get their rules.

40k has similar rules, yes. 7th edition 40k uses a percentage system, too. min 20% troops, max 25% HQ, elite, fast attack, heavy support and secondary detachment.

There is a chart for those that are unable to use a calculator. You are expected to play with an army value that is a multiple of 250 if you use it.

Min 20% core, max 25% heroes, lords, elite, special, rare, war machines, secondary forces.

War machines are all artillery pieces, chariots, altars, etc. Everything that has the unit type war machine. They are not part of their former slot anymore.

Below 750 points, there are no allies and all max troop sizes are lowered to three - or one if it was lower than or equal to three already. So most units cannot form proper block and have to fight in loose formation.

No, the block rules are more complicated than this. Monstrous units still only have to be 3 wide.

The scenarios are different. There are no scoring units in fantasy. 40k has totally different missions and objectives. But the structure is the same.

After rolling for a mission, you roll who chooses his secondary army first. This player can also choose if he wants to be the defender (deploys first, moves firts) or the attacker after both players have chosen their army. After this, you place the mandatory terrain and the defender chooses his board edge. Players take turns to place their mystic terrain. Players deploy their armies, beginning with the defender. The defender has the first turn.

It’s a very open process. It is stated many times that the process is not the one and only way to set up a game. In fact, for every step there are alternative methods presented. You can arrange the terrain together, or you can play with only one secondary contingent, or you predetermine one player as the attacker, or you play without initiative theft , etc. There are many ways, but only one is described in detail.

It’s the same. Still on a 6. But if he steals the initiative, you can change the time of battle to either dawn or day.

There is a table 1 Morning Raid, 2-3 Dawn of War, 4-5 High Noon, 6 Dusk Warriors.

Night raid is night fighting for the first three turns. Dawn of war is night fighting on turn 1. High noon is night fighting from turn 6 on. And dusk warriors is night fighting from turn 4 on.

No, those are also the fantasy names.

Night fighting is no shooting beyond 36”, stealth for units beyond 12” and shroud for units beyond 24”.

You have to disclose the army lists and the secondary forces before the game.

You either need a bigger case or you can do this at home before the game.

Maybe it comes down to this, but this game is not designed as a competitive one. You are supposed to have a collection of primary armies and in addition several smaller secondary forces. You don’t have to collect 1500 points worth of minis whenever you like a new set of miniatures and want to play with them. There is a reason to collect multiple secondary forces.

No, I don’t know the reasoning. It’s just my interpretation of how the collecting section is written.

Yes, but you don’t buy fanatics with a unit anymore. You can still distribute them in secret.

Both. 40k uses the usual tokens. In the default missions, you use landmarks as markers. Markers come immediately after mandatory terrain.

It’s the same structure as 40k but without different deployment types and scoring units. You place your army 12” from you long table edge in all default missions. Landmarks can be captured if there is no enemy unit in 3”. You roll for every of your units in 3”. On a 6+ the landmark is captured. If you fail the roll and the unit stays in 3” you can roll next turn and get +1 for every additional turn. If a landmark is captured it is no longer a landmark.

You can use any piece of terrain, but the missions are clearly written for houses. You either put them to the torch or evacuate the tenants. But shrines that must be desecrated or consecrated will do equally well.

Three. But they are all variants of a pitched battle. All of them use landmarks. Pitched Battle has a single landmark in 12” from one short table edge and equally distant from the long edges. The second mission has three landmarks in a triangle formation. One is placed in the middle of the battlefield. The other two are placed 12” from the short table edge and 6” from the middle. These two landmarks are placed on the same side of the battlefield, so one half of the battlefield is empty. Finally, Pillage has 3+D3” scattered across the disputed land.

There are several secondary missions and you choose three at random before the game. There are always two primary missions: landmarks and feats of valor.

Neither. Landmarks and feats give one victory point each. Feats of Valor are effectively kill points, but you only get one if you are defeating a special or rare unit in a melee with a core unit

Yes, they count. They are easy prey, but they are faster now and you can attack on the move.

An eagle can swoop like a flying monstrous creature in 40k. They use the same flying rules including overfly strikes and -3 BS modifier for the shooter.

Yes, snapshots are -3. I am sure I have mentioned that.

But dragons are also large targets and give +1. In 40k, only targets that are larger than a tank get +1.

You cannot compare those. Crossbows are not as strong as a boltgun and knight armour is certainly not better than space marine armour.

Chariots are warmachines, so they don’t count.

A unit that breaks and is caught immediately or is under half strength at the time it breaks.

It has to be a clean kill. If you have elite or rare units in the multiple combat, your core units cannot claim a feat of valor. If you have heroes on your side, it only counts if the opponent has a lord on his side. Two units of men-at-arms and a level 1 damsel who defeat a unit of executioners and a unit of corsairs and a dreadlord get a feat of valor. If the enemy had only a noble, you wouldn’t get the feat.

Every feat and every landmark is worth one point. Secondaries are also worth one point each.

Kill the general, first blood, reach enemy deployment zone, kill unit of enemy choosing, kill unit of own choosing. I don’t remember the last one.

Yes, it is bit convoluted.

Mystic terrain stays, but there are no random tables anymore.

There are now two types of terrain. First you place mandatory terrain. That’s terrain that is glued to your board and cannot be removed like hills. Some missions require you to place a special piece of terrain, for example a castle gate. Players can agree to place additional terrain, for example when they have a newly painted piece and want to use it under all circumstances. Or if they play a battle for a bridge as a narrative game, they need a river and a bridge on the table obviously.

Yes, basically every piece of terrain that is not optional for various reasons is placed first. In 40k, you add additional terrain until each 1’ x 1’ section has at least one terrain piece. In fantasy there is no such rule. Mystic terrain can be used as mandatory terrain and is sometimes required, but you decide what type of mystic terrain it is. You don’t roll on any tables.
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When all mandatory terrain is placed you take turns to place additional terrain. This can only be basic terrain like ordinary forests, hills, barricades, walls, buildings, fortified manors, rivers etc. Magic wells are basic terrain, too. They give +1 on a channel attempt for nearby wizards, +2 if it has the right lore attunement. Every well supports one chosen magic lore.

It’s random. You roll one dice for every 1’ x 1’ segment. For every 4+ rolled you and your opponent have to place one piece of terrain. You can place the terrain anywhere, not just in the segment you rolled for, but there is a limit of three pieces per 1’ x 1’ section (in both systems, but in fantasy it is unlikely to get this dense because there is less mandatory terrain). Some pieces of mystic terrain have additional restrictions. You cannot place a fortified manor inside the enemy table half for example.

There are lots of story-driven missions later that need specific terrain. You have some leeway to use your own collection, but if you play a battle for a pass, you need at least some hills to represent the mountains. There is no way around this. The missions describe where this mandatory terrain is placed. These missions are really characterful as a result.

Basic terrain does not cost points. But whenever you are allowed to place a piece of terrain, you can place your pre-purchased mystic terrain instead. You have to have a fitting model of course.

You buy terrain as part of any secondary force. If you bring an allied wood elf army with your bretonnians, you buy some forests for them. If you choose another secondary force, you can take different terrain or none at all.

Yes, the section is even a little bit longer than before. There are some named pieces of terrain with better rules. They are also more expensive and have a kit or get one in the near future.

It is a magic well that is attuned to the lores of death, khemri, vampires, nurgle and the dark lore.

They are rather cheap. To be able to place a venom thicket anywhere you like sounds good, but if you can place a normal forest anyway, the upgrade is not that great. They are quite useful because you will have some spare points in one of your secondary forces inevitably.

Wood Elves primary forces still have access to their leywoods. They get them on top to any normal terrain.

There are some fortified buildings in the list. They cannot be entered but have crossbows that can fire with BS3. They are more a nuisance than a threat. They are not a 40k bastion equivalent in any way.

Fortress walls and towers are in, but they are more or less glorified barricades. There are no defenders inside and you cannot enter the segments.

40k has a similar system.

About the same, but if you count the fortifications on top, 40k has twice as much mystic terrain.

They don’t have the power to grow jungles in minutes. But a wise general chooses his battleground carefully. If they command an assault force, they will choose dense terrain and therefore, the tabletop will have more terrain.

Not army specific and there is no army specific terrain in the codices yet.

No.

No.

There are no special rules for ruins in fantasy. Hills, forests, fences, barricades, walls, buildings, magic wells and water are the basic terrain. Fortress walls and towers have rules and have an AV of 12. Since units cannot enter castle segments and only use their battlements, there is no need to destroy the walls. Your units on top can be attacked by units in contact with the building as normal. Your only advantage is the cover save and the elevated position. There are no detailed siege rules.

Buildings and fortified buildings are not the same. Terrain including landmarks that only block line of sight on does nothing else. You can place models on top, but they can be charged easily. The second type are fortified buildings, that can be attacked and have exactly the same rules as 40k fortifications, so they are effectively vehicles, with a AV ranging from 9 for a wooden hut till 13 for a dwarven fortress wall segment, but the structure points are always 2 (for now at least).

The rules don’t have changed that much apart from battlements. They are generally accessible from outside and are not part of the building for most purposes - except when it crumbles. Units on battlements (including the attackers) cannot have formations and are in base contact with every unit in base contact with the segment.

Fortified buildings that can be bought cannot be entered. There are some buildings and caves in the historic missions that can be entered and there are rules for entering buildings, but if you play the basic mission, there is no way to get inside a building. Even if you buy a fortress wall or a manor you can only place your models on top but never within. There is no folding fortress anymore.

There are no vehicle rules. War machines have still a T value. Only buildings use structure points and armour values. The only exceptions are steam tanks, but they have the unit type fortified building

Maybe the designers are holding detailed castle rules back for a time when they reintroduce siege engines!? Where would be the fun with the one but not the other?

No, there are not.

In 40k there are lords of war that do not exists in fantasy. If opponent has a lord of war and you have not, he always has to choose his secondary contingent first. If he fields one, you can bring a fourth secondary detachment to the game and units in this contingent do not count against the heavy support limit.

Yes, you have to prepare this beforehand. You are supposed to have a list ready for all your forces. Write the list when you are finished with painting and keep the list in your cabinet, then simply grab the miniatures and the list when you are ready for battle. Warhammer is not supposed to be about min/maxing.

Secondary units count towards the sec percentage AND the FoC %. Sec units that are not part of a FoC like fortifications, lord of wars , formations and knights only count against the secondary percentage. You can take allies only from one regular list. There are no other limitations.

There is nothing that would suggest that there will be fantasy lords of war, except some existing artworks and the megalomaniac weapon rule.

Megalomanic weapons auto-wound and ignore feel no pain and armour saves and cause D6 wounds. Ward and cover saves have to be re-rolled. If a model survives the hit, it can move D6”, if it leaves the area completely, it survives, if not, it dies outright. If the megalomanic weapon does not use a blast, the model dies in any case.

I am immune to this

Not in the foreseeable future!

Exactly :P Instant death exists in both system, but there are no fantasy weapons that have this rule. In 40k, weapons that cause a random amount of wounds or hull damage are explained but there are no actual instances of it except for D weapons. Both systems use the same dice mechanics and everything is explained in both system, but some mechanics are more emphasized than others. In general, first check if bypassed or replaced (AP, auto-wound, wound on a fixed roll), than modify (Piercing, snapshots, to-wound modifiers), than re-roll. The re-roll every roll of 1 mechanic is a thing of the past. It’s not explained in the rulebooks and the newer codices and the army books do not use these partial re-rolls anymore. The wolf banner is a to-wound and to-hit modifier instead now.

Yes, 2015 territory. Should have chosen a better example.

Yes, sometimes this far out, but not always.

Preferred enemy gives +1 to hit both for melee and shooting attacks.

There are no artillery dice anymore. If an army book refers to it, you roll 2D6”. A double is a misfire. Cannons use BS, hit always the nearest model in unit, jump 2D6” from this point, any double is a misfire. If BS is failed cannonball hits the ground 2D6” behind the target, ball does not jump, but hits a single model, if there is one. Look out works against all shooting attacks. Cannons ignore cover saves.

There are warlord tables for fantasy. You are encouraged to choose a trait if you play a narrative game, but you can also roll.

Easy! Too many questions.

Fantasy has the same reserve rules as 40k now. There are two changes for both systems. If there is no enemy in 24” of a particular table edge, units from reserve that use this edge to enter the table can march an additional 12”. Units from reserves can never charge. Some units have the patient hunter rule, that let’s them choose to stay in ongoing reserve when they become available. 40k flyers always have the hunter rule. Outflank isn’t tied to infiltrate anymore and works like ambush.

Night fighting is in, yes.

Flyers in 40k are aircraft vehicles. Flyers in fantasy are units with the Fly rule. They are not the same. Flyers in fantasy can move 12” over terrain. They are like jump troops, but don’t cause impact hits. In addition they can make a swoop movement and make diving attacks. In 40k, the flying rule is exclusively tied to flying monstrous creatures, but it is the same thing.

40k flyers = nothing in fantasy
40k flying monstrous creatures = all fantasy flyers
40k jump troops = nothing in fantasy

Flying units must use their wings in every phase, while jump units can choose to walk. Jump units can choose to use their packs in every phase, they are no longer restrained to a single phase. But if they choose to use the packs in the assault phase, they only get impact hits. They cannot re-roll their charge distance anymore.

Assault moves are not affected by difficult terrain anyway just like charge moves in fantasy.

Only flying monstrous creatures use the flying rule.

Swoop is the same as in 40k, but units can only use it in loose formation.

Infantry, bikes (40k only), cavalry, war beasts (beasts), giants (monstrous creature). gargantuan creature (40k only), war machines (artillery), monster (fantasy only). Vehicles are 40k only as well. Monstrous is a special rule now, that gives the unit impact hits and explains how multiple-wound models are handled. The 40k analogue is bulky. Monstrous cavalry is simply cavalry with the monstrous rule. Models always share a single profile now (only exception are mounted monsters and characters on chariots). This is also true for cavalry of both systems.

Monsters are not the same as giants/monstrous creatures. Monsters get -3 Piercing and have facings exactly like units in block formation. They retain their profile when mounted. Giants ignore armour completely and don’t have facings. They have all the benefits of 40k monstrous creatures.

Yes, the legacy names are not perfect. Monsters are not monstrous creatures. Monstrous creatures don’t have the monstrous rule, because 1.) they don’t need it, they have better rules, and 2.) the monstrous rule is called bulky in 40k.

Chariots are no unit type. In fantasy they are a special kind of war machine and therefore cannot march, but the chariot rule gives them a 12” movement. There is a 40k equivalent for vehicles like in the last edition. It doesn’t override the movement rules of the vehicle. 40k chariots use the vehicle movement. Chariots in both system cause D6 S6 impact hits and can make sweep attacks, i.e. attack during the movement.

War machines cannot march. They have a combined profile and the crew on separate bases has no ingame purpose.

Monsters, monstrous models, monstrous creatures, vehicles, cavalry, jump infantry, bikes and models with shields.

Chariots cause D6 S6 impact hits without Piercing or AP. Cavalry and models with shields cause one impact hit with their base strength each. Monstrous models cause one impact hit with their base strength. Monsters and giants cause D6 impact hits. On the 40k side of thing, cavalry, monstrous creatures, jump infantry, bikes and bulky models cause one hit with their base strength. Vehicles cause D6 S6 impact hits.

Monsters impact hits do not get their normal -3 Piercing. Impact hits never influence the armour save.

Question overload! Give me some time.

Flying models do not cause impact hits, except they are monstrous or have a shield, etc.

Cavalry and monstrous cavalry have a single profile now, so there is only a single S value.

There is a list for every unit in the game. It is usually the WS,BS,I,Ld,Sv of the rider and the larger value for S,T,W,I. Attacks are one more than the largest value. But there are exceptions. I haven’t memorized the whole summary.

Yes, all attacks benefit.

Always strikes first sets I to 10. Always strikes last sets I to 1. Both cannot be modified further. A unit can choose that all models forfeit the always strike first rule for the phase and re-roll to-hit instead.

Initiative is a little bit more complicated because there are several factors that can modify the I. And there is another rule that makes it even more complex: All models in a unit attack at the same time, during the majority I-step, except in a challenge. Only models that are slower than the majority use their own I. So characters do not benefit from a higher I unless they fight in a challenge - but their higher profile contributes to roll-offs. If they are slower than the unit, they still attack later. It’s faster to calculate the I for diverse units and you don’t have as many I steps, but you do not benefit from a single spear in a unit full of swordsmen.

Impact hits are resolved at I 10, so yes, elves strike simultaneously with a chariot.

Two-handed weapons do not strike last anymore, but power fists in 40k do strike after the rest of the unit.

They are slower but also have more reach. Power fists are slow and have no reach at all.

Yes, Nobz and Hull Breakerz have the same problem. Give the full squad fists, only a single one or none at all. But a majority of fists with a minority of quick weapons is a bad idea.

Light cavalry has Feigned flight, Parting shots and sweep attacks, relentless and vanguard.

Parting shots are the old march and shoot rule on steroids. You can now fire during the move or even before you move.

Yes, parting shots can be fired during the movement phase. Drawing line of sight and measuring distances is made easier, shots are resolved immediately. Can march/run and still make parting shots.

Move unit, shoot, move rest of the movement distance. You roll the march distance after you have shot, so you have to shoot during your normal movement.

Blocks can see 360 degree in this case, but can’t see through models of the same unit, not even the single rank normally allowed.

In 40k there is a special rule called battle awareness or something like this that does the same thing.

Units can’t shoot again in shooting phase, except in 40k, where it simply reduces the number of weapons by one if the model can shoot more than one weapon.

Cover saves are allowed in general, bomb weapons might have their own exception, though. But I don’t remember.

It’s the parting shot’s equivalent for close combat attacks and impact hits. A whole lot of other rules are considered sweep attacks. Everything that moves - attacks - moves is considered a sweep attack. If you attack a building, it is a sweep attack. When light cavalry or chariots hit a unit en passant it is a sweep attack, etc.

You move, stop, both sides deal blows before the unit continues its movement.

There is no combat resolution, casualties count against the 25% threshold though. Units are not bound in combat. There are no charge reactions, no Hold, no snapshots, no flee.

You move the whole unit and resolve the attacks before continuing the movement. The exact position is important. Every model within 3” of enemy can attack.

You can not move closer than 1”, so every model between 1” and 3”.

Casualties are allocated from nearest to farthest with the usual look out rule.

Yes, you can snipe champions, if enemy rolls a 1 for his lookout sir roll.

You don’t have to.

Normal initiative order, but without pile-ins!

Yes ,the normal boni, +1A for skirmishers, lances, impact hits, etc.

Chariots, too. Since chariots cannot march, they are not as effective as light cavalry, but they have their impact hits.

There are no cavalry mounts anymore, but mounted monsters can attack, too.

Not just light cav and chariots. Units with the hit & run rule is allowed to make sweep attacks and any unit that attacks a building.

It works in both system. Hit & run is a special rule and lets you make sweep attacks and grants feigned flight.

No, it doesn’t let you retreat from an ongoing combat.

On the 40k side of things, bikes and jetbikes can make sweep attacks.

No, they don’t have hit & run. Only sweep attacks.

Feigned flight let you auto-rally after a flee reaction. and you are not destroyed if you are catched, simply bound in combat.

Yes, you can shoot at any unit after a sweep attack if you haven’t marched, but you cannot combine it with a parting shots and cannot charge in this turn.

You cannot charge buildings, only the units on the battlements. But if you want to hit a building, you do this in the movement phase and stay out of 1” at any time.

Yes, applies to 40k vehicles too, except for those with a WS like chariots, walkers and super-heavy walkers. You can charge those.

Yes, move and march is slower than move and charge, but you can move after attacking a vehicle and even shoot. It’s an even trade.

Chariot is a vehicle special rule in 40k and a war machine special rule in fantasy. Chariots deal D6 S6 impact hits, can make sweep attacks. Fantasy chariots can move 12”.

Fantasy chariots have a combined profile now. If it is a character mount, it works just like a mounted monster. The chariot profile doesn’t change if the character replaces a crew member. The character can attack, but attacker can choose if he wants to hit the chariot/monster or rider.

Still random.

The 40k rule is a little bit longer because it explains the crew and charge rules more detailed.

No armour save bonus as far as I remember.

Yes, chariots take damage back, but they cause impact hits during a sweep attack now.

There are (almost) no flying chariots. I think they can make both, but sweep attacks are better in every way.

Arkhan.

Only daemons, necrons and orcs.

The diving attacks of flying units are also sweep attacks but cause impact hits instead of the normal attacks. The enemy cannot strike back. But the flying unit must make a swoop move.

Diving attack is the fantasy name for vector strike.

D6 auto-hits with the unit’s base strength, always against the rear, so no shield blocks even against skirmishers.

Per unit.

You don’t have to place the unit, you hit a unit in 3” of the flight path of one of the models.

Yes, vector strikes are exactly the same.

No, no effect on shooting at all.

Only the D6 impact hits, their natural impact hits are ignored.

Impact hits have never an AP or amour save modifier.

Not even fantasy chariots. But they can now hit an enemy without getting entangled.

Vector strikes are now D6 auto base-strength hits without any armour save modifications.



There are so many instances, I doubt I have covered all of them. Sweep attacks have a fairly large rule box of their own. Light cavalry, chariots in both systems, bikes, flying units, units with hit & run make sweep attacks, all units against buildings/vehicles, tanks have tank shocks and flying monstrous have diving attack/vector strikes. I hope this list is complete.

Tanks without WS can make sweep attacks against units and deal D6 impact hits. When they hit another vehicle, there are more complicated rules.

They can even make multiple sweep attacks and move through units.

Always S6 if the model has no S-value. Walkers use their base strength.

Walkers cannot make sweep attacks (except against vehicles without WS), but they can charge and deal D6 impact hits just like a chariot.

Light walkers only get a single impact hit.

Units can make a death or glory attack, either snapfire or attacks from models in 3”, but gets 2D6 impact hits if it does not stop the vehicle.

You stop the tank 1” away and resolve either the shots or the close combat attacks. Defender shoots or makes his attacks. If defender wants to attack, must pass a fear test or has WS 1, i.e. hits on 4. Hits are resolved against the rear.

They don’t hit the front. They try to jump on the vehicle or attack the tracks while the tank is passing them. they are near enough to get impact hits.

Technically yes, but since vehicles have no I value, they automatically pass the test.

Models move out of the way.

40k impact hits are called hammer of wrath, but they work the same. Auto-Hits with I10.

Diving attacks are the fantasy version of vector strikes in every way. 40k and fantasy chariots make sweep attacks. Sweep attacks cannot hit zooming flyers or swooping flying models, but vector strikes and diving attack can.

You choose where to strike for wound allocation purposes, but the enemy can make lookout rolls. They now work for every model including special weapons, always on a 2+. But you can only make a single roll per batch.

One roll per firing unit or initiative step.

Musicians and standards are vulnerable, because you can only protect one of them.

Blocks must fill their ranks at the end of every phase and the start of every initiative step in a melee.

If the pegasus knights swoop and march, they double their march distance.

Flying models are very deadly again, especially against armies without missile weapons, but the army books will catch up and provide counters eventually. You can ground flyers with ranged fire.

Yes, both right. In addition there are magic weapoons and the balewind vortex.

It forces to land flyers nearby on a roll, but can’t remember the exact value.

Two bows, a javelin and a throwing axe.

In both systems, but in 40k there are only flying monstrous creatures. Jump models and jetbikes cannot make vector strikes, but jetbikes can make sweep attacks.

Vehicle movement hasn’t changed. There is still 6” combat and 12” cruising speed. The flat-out movement is done in the movement phase. It is a fixed 6” movement.

Vehicle get cover saves, but only against other vehicles.

Infantry get cover saves both against vehicles and non-vehicles.

I don’t know. But even if 25% of you tank is hidden, it is still easier to hit the remaining 75% than a 2 metre human. I don’t remember if there is an explanation given, but vehicles in terrain do not get cover saves against non-vehicles. the same is true for fantasy buildings.

There are a lot all-or-nothing situations, all tied to a profile tests or roll-off.

No jetpacks and jump for fantasy.

40k jump units move 12” in the movement phase, + D6” if they run and 2D6” assault move. This movement is not affected by terrain. They deal hammer of wrath hits and have to test if they start or end a phase in terrain. They can choose not to use the jump pack in every phase and are affected by terrain then, they run 6” + D6” and charge 6” + 2D6” through terrain just like infantry if they do not use their pack. But they don’t get their impact hits..

Swarms use the 40k rules. They lose D3 wounds to breath and flamer weapons now.

Special rules are all over the place. In some cases, the fantasy and 40k rules stay independent (rending and killing blow are not the same), in other the fantasy adapts the 40k rules (venom works like the 40k poisoned attack (4+) now). There are even cases where 40k adapts a fantasy rule (berserk is frenzy, but with a shorter explanation since it does not need to consider block formations). Lots of rules only exists in one system, but some are copied to the other system (terror, concussive, rending, ...). There are too many to remember them all.

Rending is exactly the same in both worlds.

Killing blow grants rending attacks against non-buildings and non-war machines, so it is not exactly the same. It is similar to feel no pain and regeneration. Feel no pain exists in both systems. Regeneration gives feel no pain, but is negated by flaming weapons..

No.

no

It’s the same in both systems.

Also the same

Breath weapons work like template weapons in every regard, but in addition they deal D6 auto-hits in combat.

Ethereal models can only be wounded on a 6 by non-magic weapons. They can move through terrain.

I think it is the same.

Yes.

There are three tiers of stomp for both systems, but as far as I can see, they are not part of any unit types except super-large walkers and gargantuan creatures.

No, they are not impact hits.

No.

It’s the same.

There is a rule called Dragonbane, that does the same as interceptor and skyfire combined.

Yes.

The same.

Same.

Sniper is renamed in markman and is not the same as the 40k sniper.

Scaly Skin no longer exists.

Flaming attacks negate regeneration and grant additional piercing -1 against cavalry, flying creatures and monsters.

Relentless, Feel no Pain, blind, concussive, but there are likely more that I don’t recall.

Give me a break, I can’t go through the whole list

[Bigred]

In format this appears to be one half of a chat conversation. It is fairly easy to figure out the other side of it.

If true - its a blueprint for a merging of 40k and WFB rulesets that takes us into 2015.
If false - it's a very elaborate hoax.

Like for example the massive "not 6th edition" hoax-ruleset that leaked in the months running up to 40K 6th. We have seen more elaborate hoaxes in the past.

[Wolfshade]

Either there are typos or the one half is from a continental european.

The rules are 99,99% the same as in 40k. If you come from 40k you can play fantasy with minimal effort.

The use of a , to seperate the decimals rather than a .

[White Tiger88]

Fantasy\40k being the same makes me want to go stab a skaven with a rusty bayonet....

[Wolfshade]

It is not internally consistent:

All infantry units move 6”. There are no movement values anymore.

Ogres are faster than Dwarfs

[White Tiger88]

It is not internally consistent:

Thats because ogres run faster when they see stuff to eat and dwarfs have to stop for drink breaks.

[Wildeybeast]

Either there are typos or the one half is from a continental european.



The use of a , to seperate the decimals rather than a .

Or it's typo. Either way, I didn't get past the first few paragraphs before the stench of BS overwhelmed me. This sounds like utter tosh and seems oblivious of the fact that the games already have the same basic mechanics and have shared common changes over the years. Characteristics, hit and wound charts, pre-measuring, TLOS, psychology and so on and so forth. The key differences are things like rules for different unit, movement , magic etc. These are the distinguishing features of each game and will remain so.

[Tzeentch's Dark Agent]

I'm in the same mind, this sounds like a hell of a lot of change when they haven't even updated most of the rulebooks for armies yet.

[Vovin]

It is internally consistent as far as I can see. Read the next sentence. According to the dump Ogres have fleet, so they are faster than dwarfs, while both have a 6" movement. Everything falls in place quite nicely, but the same could be said about the pancake edition.

This document is at least three weeks old. It made the rounds as a chat protocol. The names and the questions are missing in this dump. I tried to contact larry a couple of weeks ago via google+, but he hasn't answered. But I have reached out to other people over at warseer and they told me that they don't know but that they doubt that it is valid. So I didn't bother to post it.
I think it is best to close this thread before it gets too much attention.

[Carlill]

I wonder what Senator Vreenak has to say on this matter.