Stationary vehicles firing Ordnance

[This Dave]

As requested here are the emails I got from Forgeworld about stationary vehicles firing Ordnance and if the other weapons have to fire Snap Shots. I wrote both GW and Forgeworld about this last year when I realized that if firing an Ordnance weapon makes all the other shots Snap Shots things like Titans and Baneblades were a lot less useful. GW sent me a form response but Forgeworld actually answered me.

I know it's not an official pronouncement but since it makes a lot more sense for things like Leman Russes I believe this is how the rule is intended to work.

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From: "Forge World (UK)" <forgeworld@...>
Date: January 10, 2013, 9:25:57 AM EST
To: David <pitfriend@...>
Subject: Re: Super Heavy vehicles and Ordnance weapons

Hi,

Thanks for your e-mail. Page 83 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook states that Heavy vehicles always count as remaining stationary for shooting; the Vehicles and Ordnance paragraph on page 71 specifically relates to the Moving and Shooting with Vehicles heading.

The Heavy or Super-heavy type overrides this; as such yes, the Internet is just a bit confused because it's not especially clear from the rules.

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Forge World



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On 10 January 2013 11:53, David <pitfriend@...> wrote:
So that means that my Leman Russ can fire its Battlecannon and still fire the sponson weapons with full Ballistic Skill? That will make my Guard very happy if it does.

Also you might want to get that put into a FAQ both for Forge World and 40K as my original reading of the rule seems to be the common one, if what I've read around the Internet is any indication.

Thanks again!
Dave

Sent from my iPad

On Jan 10, 2013, at 5:04 AM, "Forge World (UK)" <forgeworld@...> wrote:

Hi there.

The reference to firing Ordnance weapons and other weapons specifically relates to moving and shooting. As Super Heavy vehicles (and Heavy vehicles) always count as stationary when firing, other, non-ordnance weapons may be fired with the full BS.


On 10 January 2013 01:32, David <pitfriend@...> wrote:
Have a question about Super Heavy vehicles and Ordnance weapons. On page 71 of the 6th edition rulebook it says that a vehicle that fires an Ordnance weapon can fire other weapons but they count as Snap Shots. Since all Super Heavy vehicles have Ordnance weaponry this rule makes them far less useful. Ordnance, Blast, and Template weapons cannot be fired as Snap Shots so many of the weapons on things like Titans can't be fired and those weapons that can be are far less effective when they only hit on a 6.

I have read the Super Heavy rules in the new Imperial Armour book several times and cannot find any rule to override the Vehicles and Ordnance rule from the main rulebook. Have I just missed something somewhere?

Thanks!
Dave

Sent from my iPad



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*****

Hope this helps!

[Haighus]

Wow, so a Leman Russ can fire everything at full BS? That sounds great!

Finally located my rulebook. I see where FW is coming from with the ordnance rules for vehicles only relating to moving and shooting, but that is seriously ambiguous! Not to mention GW has taken down their FAQs...

[Wildcard]

Nice one Dave. This has to be one of the greatest buffing discoveries in the 41st millenium for the imperial guard

[This Dave]

Wow, so a Leman Russ can fire everything at full BS? That sounds great!

Finally located my rulebook. I see where FW is coming from with the ordnance rules for vehicles only relating to moving and shooting, but that is seriously ambiguous! Not to mention GW has taken down their FAQs...

That definitely seems to be the case. And my tanks are a LOT happier. But like you said it's written very badly. I've sent GW several requests to put it in the FAQ. Hopefully when they put them back up they'll add this in.

[Nabterayl]

Yeah ... while I think this is the sensible rule, I don't think it's at all clear from page 71 that firing an Ordnance weapon essentially means you're deemed to have moved at cruising speed when it comes to firing the rest of your weapons. "Not especially clear" is an understatement :P

[This Dave]

Nice one Dave. This has to be one of the greatest buffing discoveries in the 41st millenium for the imperial guard

Thanks. With the rule working this way it now makes sense why GW originally took the Lumbering Behemoth rule away from Leman Russes. Now the biggest problem is convincing people this is the way it's supposed to be played.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah ... while I think this is the sensible rule, I don't think it's at all clear from page 71 that firing an Ordnance weapon essentially means you're deemed to have moved at cruising speed when it comes to firing the rest of your weapons. "Not especially clear" is an understatement :P

If the rules were clear it wouldn't be 40K.

[Haighus]

The thing is, this also makes other vehicles better too, not just heavy vehicles- any vehicle that is stationary can now fire all it's weapons at full BS plus ordnance. Hell, even hellstrike missiles on a Valkyrie could be usable now if it goes into hover mode (although it is a bit crap that a highly advanced aircraft basically has to come to a complete stop to fire all it's weapon systems accurately....)

[Tynskel]

The thing is, this also makes other vehicles better too, not just heavy vehicles- any vehicle that is stationary can now fire all it's weapons at full BS plus ordnance. Hell, even hellstrike missiles on a Valkyrie could be usable now if it goes into hover mode (although it is a bit crap that a highly advanced aircraft basically has to come to a complete stop to fire all it's weapon systems accurately....)

the Vulture/Valkyrie/Stormraven/Stormtalon are helicopters of 40k. Meant to just hover and blast away.

[Mad Cat]

I still don't think this is right. I am willing to be convinced by a FAQ from GW or even from forgeworld but they have not done so. When they took away lumbeing behemoth 18 months ago the effect was clear and they didn't FAQ it to clarify. Now the AM codex still doesn't "Correct" this so GW have had 2 chances to allow Russ to fire all guns + ordnance but chosen not to do so so I don't think you can argue RAI on that.

I know Dave has his Email as evidence but that just comes from someone at FW who is in charge of answering customer emails that day. It's like me asking a redshirt at the local GW, getting him to write his ruling on a piece of paper and taking it along to adepticon. Hardly gospel as GW and FW staff are hardly above making mistakes.

If you check the superheavy rules there is a clause stating that a superheavy vehicle can fire ordnance and then other weapons without having to snapfire. Great! This rule does override the firing ordnance rule in the 40k rulebook. No problems there.

The problem is the HEAVY TANK rule (Diferent from the superheavy) in the 40k rulebook makes no such claims and just says they are counted as stationary at all times which in no way overrides the ordnance rule.

Lets hope they get it sorted soon. I would love to put sponsons and stubbers on basic Russ. Perhapse 7th edition will solve this without needing a FAQ.

[Wildcard]

just to point out, with the new (well, the old ones actually, but in new place) FAQs being hosted on a fw-website clearly shows that FW is from this point on, the main rule fixing entity (if the faqs will start pouring out from FW instead of GW in the future)