Ordering a Paradox

[Crydon Games]

This thread is one of the more annoying attempts to make a problem where there is not one. If you read

"Quote Originally Posted by Turner
Astra Militarum's Voice of Command specifically states:
Voice Of Command
A model with this special rule is known as an officer. An officer can issue one order each turn. Orders are issued and their effects resolved at the start of your Shooting phase. If you have more than one officer, or if you have an officer that has a special rule allowing it to issue more than one order a turn, issue and resolve each order one at a time."

It is very clear that orders are issued and carried out one at a time. It says issued and resolved at the start of the shooting phase...and it says that you issue and resolve each one at a time.

"Astra Miltarum Orders
'Take Aim!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Smite at Will!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Forwards, for the Emperor!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Move Move Move!' The ordered unit must Run.
'Suppressive Fire!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Bring it Down!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Fire on My Target!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Get Back in The Fight!' The ordered unit immediately regroups if falling back but it does not make a 3" move."

All you have summed up here is the order and its effect...ie "suppressive fire" is the order, "the ordered unit must make a shooting attack" is the effect... and again, reading Voice of Command, it clearly states that orders and their effects are carried out at the beginning of the shooting phase...the shooting phase does not progress beyond orders until all orders and their effects are carried out...then on to normal shoot/run.

There is no more to read into this, and again I say that the original question is irrelevant as there is no advantage to issuing a "shoot" order to a unit which has no enemy in sight.

And for the record, "get back in the fight" only says immediately because, as orders are issued and carried out at the start of the shooting phase, a unit given this order can make a normal shooting attack once the "beginning of the shooting phase" progresses beyond orders to the portion where normal shooting/run happens.

[Katharon]

Crydon nailed it.

[Gleipnir]

yup pretty much

[Tynskel]

This thread is one of the more annoying attempts to make a problem where there is not one. If you read

"Quote Originally Posted by Turner
Astra Militarum's Voice of Command specifically states:
Voice Of Command
A model with this special rule is known as an officer. An officer can issue one order each turn. Orders are issued and their effects resolved at the start of your Shooting phase. If you have more than one officer, or if you have an officer that has a special rule allowing it to issue more than one order a turn, issue and resolve each order one at a time."

It is very clear that orders are issued and carried out one at a time. It says issued and resolved at the start of the shooting phase...and it says that you issue and resolve each one at a time.

"Astra Miltarum Orders
'Take Aim!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Smite at Will!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'First Rank, Fire! Second Rank, Fire!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Forwards, for the Emperor!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Move Move Move!' The ordered unit must Run.
'Suppressive Fire!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Bring it Down!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Fire on My Target!' The ordered unit must make a shooting attack.
'Get Back in The Fight!' The ordered unit immediately regroups if falling back but it does not make a 3" move."

All you have summed up here is the order and its effect...ie "suppressive fire" is the order, "the ordered unit must make a shooting attack" is the effect... and again, reading Voice of Command, it clearly states that orders and their effects are carried out at the beginning of the shooting phase...the shooting phase does not progress beyond orders until all orders and their effects are carried out...then on to normal shoot/run.

There is no more to read into this, and again I say that the original question is irrelevant as there is no advantage to issuing a "shoot" order to a unit which has no enemy in sight.

And for the record, "get back in the fight" only says immediately because, as orders are issued and carried out at the start of the shooting phase, a unit given this order can make a normal shooting attack once the "beginning of the shooting phase" progresses beyond orders to the portion where normal shooting/run happens.

I guess I should have posted:
[url]http://www.lounge.belloflostsouls.net/showthread.php?21435-Tynskel-s-Guide-to-Interpreting-Rules&p=194151&viewfull=1#post194151[/url]

[Nabterayl]

[url=http://nooooooooooooooo.com/]cf.[/url]

[Tynskel]

[url=http://nooooooooooooooo.com/]cf.[/url]

bwahahahah!

[John Bower]

Actually there can be a point to issuing 'pointless' orders. Its' the same as in X-Wing, it can be one of those piddly things that is hard to remember for somebody new to guard, so encourage them to give orders even if they are worthless; that way they will begin to remember to do so. In X-wing you have a system of 'actions' and when I was taught it I was encouraged to put an action on a ship even though we might be miles from being in range to use an action. But it helped to remember to do it. So yep, I say always give your orders even if you don't have any use for them, get all your officers to give their orders anyway. What harm can it have? But it will help a new player get used to it, and if people had helped me like that it wouldn't have taken me till the new cards came out to start remembering my orders.

[Charistoph]

Actually there can be a point to issuing 'pointless' orders. Its' the same as in X-Wing, it can be one of those piddly things that is hard to remember for somebody new to guard, so encourage them to give orders even if they are worthless; that way they will begin to remember to do so. In X-wing you have a system of 'actions' and when I was taught it I was encouraged to put an action on a ship even though we might be miles from being in range to use an action. But it helped to remember to do it. So yep, I say always give your orders even if you don't have any use for them, get all your officers to give their orders anyway. What harm can it have? But it will help a new player get used to it, and if people had helped me like that it wouldn't have taken me till the new cards came out to start remembering my orders.

Still, aren't there other orders than "Shoot with a special style!" that could be better used to remembering to make Orders?

[John Bower]

Still, aren't there other orders than "Shoot with a special style!" that could be better used to remembering to make Orders?

Pretty much any order will do except move orders. My point was that somebody said there was no point to issuing unnecessary orders, and that is a valid point for issuing them. Any shoot order that is useless is just useful for remembering to issue them...

[Gleipnir]

So the logic is issue orders to remember to issue orders, but because you may be penalized with a bad die result while issuing useless orders, you additionally have to remember to only issue your useless orders after you have already attempted to issue the orders you care about.

Seems to me if you are already to the point you have to remember to do the later remembering to do the former just for the sake of remembering is just silly.