New Star Wars to suck at the Retcon root.

[Nabterayl]

as for me, i have one hope for all of this, something that might actually get me checking out the new eu canon materials - stop having the entire galaxy constantly revolve around the skywalker clan. Having some focus on them? Sure. But seriously, it seems like every important event in the galaxy involves luke and leia and their respective spawn, even going to the star wars legacy comics set a century later. It's a huge galaxy - tell other peoples' stories already!

qft.

[daboarder]

That has nothing to do with my point though. I'm not talking about in-universe stuff I'm talking about how female characters were treated. There were fewer of them, they mostly had poor characterisation and they had more than their fair share of casualties. They were basically interchangeable cutouts much of the time, and antagonists were worse. You had Isard who started off as an incredibly cunning, existential threat to the New Republic who became a raving loon which was so bad it had to be retconned that she was a clone and the real Isard was still about. Then you had Daala who started off as basically competent but quickly became infamous in the fandom for being utterly, absolutely incompetent and wasting military resources like they were going out of fashion. Contrast to Palleaon who despite doing bloody nothing but stand around oohign and aahing at Thrawn was built into a dignified, respected father figure for the Empire.

The EU had a terrible, terrible record with women. There are exceptions of course like Bria Tharen who had loads of character growth and agency in the Han Solo trilogy and some of the major characters and fan favourites like Leia and Winter were usually depicted well. Though Leia could be a bit of a prop at times. I have much more faith in Disney (if not JJ Abrams) to do it better.

honestly thats the most conspiratorially, tin foil hat junk I've read. You picked out either

1) bad writing
2) 2 dimensional characters
3) character you just dont like

And are arguing that its a conspiracy against women.....

Did it ever occur to you that its just bad writing and 2 dimensional characters? I mean you make no mention as the others do that the whole galaxy revolves around the skywalkers. You ignore that whoever the protagonist is they have roughly a 50/50 chance of becoming a jedi at some point, and you seem surprised when bad things happen to the bad guy....

look at it form the other side.

Does the character kell tainer mean that the books are inherently mysandrist?

At least you dropped the xenophobia

[Psychosplodge]

Well yeah, of course. Which makes me feel great. I mean, as I said - there are pretty much no EU plot points or characters that I am attached to, and I think those are the most likely things to get axed. I wouldn't mind Mara Jade getting Lumiya'd, of course, but pretty much everything else can go as far as I'm concerned The rest of it - the tech, the dating systems, the astrography, even the cultures - I imagine are going to stay pretty much as they are.

I meant though what will happen if you're talking about x event 10 years ABY. DO you mean from the books? The films? the no doubt new books that will accompany the films? They've literally killed it for me. On the plus side I suppose I now know more or less exactly how much shelf space my books need as I doubt there'll be owt to add to it anymore.

(still mad that Bevel Lemelisk got replaced with Geonosian engineers *hugs his copy of the Death Star Technical Manual*),

I didn't even notice that had happened, is that in the prequels or prequel related books?

[daboarder]

huh, so thats the schmuck that left the exhaust port straight as an arrow

[eldargal]

honestly thats the most conspiratorially, tin foil hat junk I've read. You picked out either

1) bad writing
2) 2 dimensional characters
3) character you just dont like

And are arguing that its a conspiracy against women.....

Did it ever occur to you that its just bad writing and 2 dimensional characters? I mean you make no mention as the others do that the whole galaxy revolves around the skywalkers. You ignore that whoever the protagonist is they have roughly a 50/50 chance of becoming a jedi at some point, and you seem surprised when bad things happen to the bad guy....

look at it form the other side.

Does the character kell tainer mean that the books are inherently mysandrist?

At least you dropped the xenophobia

There is nothing conspiratorial about it. Most writers were male, most male writers prioritise male characters without realising it, the result is fewer and less well developed female characters. Some writers bucked the, Ann Crispin and Timothy Zahn for example and some others. It is absolutely bad writing but when bad writing consistently ruins female characters and not male characters you have to ask why and the answer is male writers prioritising male characters without realising it. It's quite simple really, fewer female characters means less opportunity for well developed characters and a greater impact when they are killed off and/or written badly. It isn't a conspiracy, it is patriarchy. Most men are simply unaware of it.

I also never said anything about xenophobia, I said it was obvious who was going to die of the main cast because alien characters were less priority than human characters. It has nothing to do with real world xenophobia and nothing to do with in universe xenophobia. I mean let's see:

Luke Skywalker
Han Solo
Princess Leia
Chewbacca
Lando Calrissian

Which of these do you really think was going to be in danger? It was obvious, as soon as I heard about one of the main characters being bumped off from one of the con panels I knew it was going to be Chewbacca and the forums and fandom were basically united in that belief. The only people who questioned it were Chewbacca fans, understandably enough.

[Psychosplodge]

Statistically? Lando - only based on every film ever

[eldargal]

Statistically? Lando - only based on every film ever

Too popular. Star Wars: the franchise where black men are safe(r) because they have aliens to pick on instead...

[Mr Mystery]

I don't care about retconning. I really, really don't.

What made the original trilogy so good?

1. I was probably about 4 the first time I saw A New Hope.
2. I was completely unaware of further films until my Bro got the disassembled C-3PO for his Birthday, and a friend of the family explained that's from the second film.
3. I had no idea what was going to happen when I first saw each film.

Prequels? Well, we kind of know who Sidious is. We really know what Anakin becomes, and indeed what becomes of the Jedi Order. No real surprises, which is why those that did exist felt a wee bit contrived, even if they're really no worse than Luke and Leia being bro and sis etc.

Now, the sequel trilogy? No idea where they're going with it. Nobody does. Fresh pastures. This allows for decent cliff hangers. Remember the first time you saw ESB? How awesome was that ending? The good guys spent that entire film getting their collective heads kicked in, and Han may well be dead. We can get that this time around, or something like it.

[Psychosplodge]

No, we know the first film will kill off Han Solo.

[Mr Mystery]

Says who? Internet Orang-Utan Big Fat Harry Knowles types?

Or are you being silly?