Need help choosing my first army between 3

[Havok_AK]

Hello all, i have been playing warhammer 40k for some years now and some of the people i play with also play WFB.i'd like to find the army that suits me bes,t since we are a somewhat competitive group and i wouldn't like to spend a large sum of money in an army that can't stand reasonably well against my friends lists.heaving read the army books and some of the rulebook (and im assuming the gameplay is not way to different from 40k) i've found that i am trying to choose between High Elves,Lizardmen and Dwarves.my friends play ogres,dark elves and wood elves.the main things i'm concerned about the armies that i like is tha HE look really fragile and not very forgiving for mistakes (although rather strong in offence),dwarves are too slow so i guess the only way to go is a gunline and that seems too inflexible and i'm a bit confused about lizardmen playstyle (and those 5 Ld skinks don't look too promising).i hope i have given more than enough information for everyone to understand my thoughts on these armies but as i said i dont have any experience in the game so i might have judged wrong.any advice/suggestions/info/tips are more than welcome, and thank you in advance

[Wildeybeast]

Lizards seem pretty flexible. You probably want big blocks of saurus, but beyond that play how you like. You could run cav heavy, big smashy monsters, magic heavy. Lizardmen are probably the most flexible. I don't know much about how the new dwarfs play I'm afraid. You are right in that HE hit hard but aren't overly durable, but no more so than other T3 armies. TBH, they are all pretty well balanced against other 8th Ed armies, so I would suggest models and background should be a big consideration for you.

[Chronowraith]

New Dwarves are pretty flexible. Sure they aren't fast but remember, everything charges Move+2d6 so it's possible that dwarves can get the charge off. Additionally, gyrocopters and bombers are pretty fast given that they are both flyers. Even if they don't they get bonuses whether they charge or get charged.

Dwarves really play best when balanced. Run them as a gunline and you'll get swarmed pretty quick. Run them all close combat and you'll still get swarmed. Run a mix of both and suddenly the opponents numbers have been thinned enough to make them manageable for the dwarven combat blocks.

[Havok_AK]

Thank you for your replies.heaving read them and many others in blogs and forums about the game, im now trying to decide between HE and dwarfs.the lizardmen are fine but im not really into the whole dinosaur thing.keeping in mind i will be facing DE and WE mostly, which of the two will be best against them?can dwarfs play decently against the WE in terms of shooting and manuverability?can HE weather the storm of repeating crossbows?i like the fluff and looks of both armies so i can't really decide based on this aspects.in an competitive enviroment i want to be able to stand decently.as always, thank you for your help and advice

[Bagombo]

I've been painting Lizardmen and I can say they are super fun to paint, even if I have no play experience with them yet. For me it's nice to use lots of bright colours, I'm fairly new to painting and it has let me experiment a lot, and keeps the painting interesting.

[Mathieu Durand]

Thank you for your replies.heaving read them and many others in blogs and forums about the game, im now trying to decide between HE and dwarfs.the lizardmen are fine but im not really into the whole dinosaur thing.keeping in mind i will be facing DE and WE mostly, which of the two will be best against them?can dwarfs play decently against the WE in terms of shooting and manuverability?can HE weather the storm of repeating crossbows?i like the fluff and looks of both armies so i can't really decide based on this aspects.in an competitive enviroment i want to be able to stand decently.as always, thank you for your help and advice

you can't beat the WE in terms of shooting. that's their strongest point
manoeuvrability speaking, only HE can be at the same level (or around). dwarves and saurus are slow compared to WE.

lizardmen are a strange mix :
general : super strong magic or super strong fighter (but a mix of both is too expensive)
hero : strong fighter or cheap hero. sking priest are combo but left alone are quite weak
units : saurus are super strong but really slow. expect deads before they can hit back. hopefully, they resist quite well. skinks are weak but move fast. they can shoot (but far less than WE or DE. don't run a gun fight with them).
cavalry is quite strong (a hard hitting saurus on a cold one, without stupidity ...) but expensive and not really resisting.
other units, i didn't really try

their special trick is the 3D6 keep the 2 lowest for morale tests. even when beaten, they can resist running away. it can save a day.

they can munch WE (strong shots, but CC is not that good, and you can stop their magic), but DE will be tougher (lots of shots, and when you arrive in range, very strong CC units)

HE are an expensive army, but you can say they are quite close to DE.

dwarves are usually static, waiting for the ennemy to get close while shooting them, and smash them with hammers and heavy CC units. most of the time, the armies are the same (2 strong units, 1 fast unit to arrive behind the ennemies, 1-2 shooting units, and guns guns guns)

[Craig M Brooks]

I play Ogres and Empire. I used to play Lizards. I had over a hundred of those LD5 skinks in one list. Why? 2 shots each with poison. Used correctly Lizardmen are a very good army. You will have a priest and 20 temple Guard, and then build from there. So many choices.

[Chris22]

I chose dwarves because I love the fluff behind them and I love the look of chunky regiments of mail-clad warriors bearing axes and hammers. Somewhat slow on the tabletop but you can get around that. Tons of firepower too.

I also didn't really want to paint horses so that led me away from cav heavy armies and I have a vendetta against elves as well, so dwarves it was.

[YourSwordisMine]

Whenever I am recommending armies to new players of Warhammer Fantasy, there are three things that you need to consider:

Do you like the look of the models?
Do you like the background history of the army?
Do you like their play style and does it compare to how you like to play games?

The first one is more important than most people realize. With WFB, you will be painting a lot of models (more than most other games). You need to like the army enough that you wont get tired after painting just a few of them...

The second one kind of goes hand in hand with the first. You need to like the history, the fluff, the story of the army you are choosing almost as much as the aesthetics of the models, kits and artwork that is presented.

Finally and the most important in my opinion is play style. No two armies really play the same, so picking an army that matches your own play style really goes a long way to making it an army that is fun to play. WFB isn't cheap, and you don't want to invest in an army that has a play style that fun for you. If it isn't fun, you wont want to play, you wont want to paint, and you wont like the game, and end up resenting your investment.

You've narrowed it down to three choices, look at those armies while considering those questions. Do any of them really stand out to you? Go from there. Hell, give another look at all the armies again and see if your chosen three still feel right to you. Don't limit yourself to an army because they aren't played a lot in your group or store. It really needs to be something you can live with without what other people own or play being a factor.

I hope this helps, and welcome to Warhammer Fantasy!

[Marco Brigo]

Hey man! Glad you're starting with WH. I'm italian, wich may seem of no importance, but as you prolly know here in europe WH is the most played game in the competitive scene (almost all tournaments for example in Italy are WH tournaments) and while 40k is still played more than WH between friends at home it never picked up the same relevance on the competitive scene as fantasy. So i got quite the experience in competitve WH, going to tournaments regularly and all (as i don't doubt others have as well ofc! just speaking for myself only to put experience as a reference to what i'm going to say ).

As a lot of people already told you the fundamental reasons of choice (wich is the models you like most, the bg you like most and your playstyle), i'll skip that part and talk a bit about crunch of 2 of the armies you got doubts about.

I won't say anything about dwarves, cause what have said is pretty solid and i never owned/played them. But two of the armies you mentioned i actually collect and play since i was a kid. That being High Elves and Lizardmen. Also keep in mind that the new edition kinda leveled the playing field a bit. There are still some armies and some combos that are the best sort of, but anything can win if played properly and in no way it's like older editions were some armies lost nearly on default and some combos were almost unbeatable. So when i talk about competitive choices being solid or really great i don't mean unbeatable or that you'll win automatically. Just that they may give you an edge.

Lizzies have always been one of the major competitive powerhouses in wh. Along the editions they've always been a solid choice and in some were even the top one. In this edition they prolly lack the punch they used to have 2 editions ago (mono skink lists were dominating) and the last edition (slan + big unit magic bunker) as both were sort of nerfed as viable playstyles (even if the bunker one is still pretty solid). But they're still pretty good an army as a whole.

They have one of the strongest mages in the game, and in WH magic deals massive/apocalyptic damage, much more influencing the game than its psychic counterpart in 40k, and mono-magic focused lists are not uncommon.
They also have some pretty big hand to hand heroes and you can possibly build up a melee list with them.
As far as troops go, saurus were upgraded this edition since they've always been sort of "meh" in the past (making skinks the best choice than). Now big chunks of solid saurus infantry can bunker your heroes while dealing a good beating when necessary. And that should be a good basis. But never ever forget skinks. You need a pair of units of skinks. They are the best skirmishers in the game cost/efficiency wise. March 12, poison multi ranged attack that can kill big monsters or monstrous infantries/cavalries in 1/2 turns, they are virtually unchargable if you move them correctly and they don't suffer shooting that much as well since they skirmish. They tend to be cleaned with magic, but if your opponent is shooting magic on your skinks instead of other units all the better. They've always been one of the best core choices the game (not only lizzies) have to offer. Now they're not dominant as in the past, but they still bring the guerrilla and are a total pain in the *** to your opponent. The d5 should not discourage you, Cold Blood (lizzies use 3d6 and you count only 2 lowest on D checks) and the fact you can pass discipline from your general or repat failed discipline checks with BSBs (battle standard bearers) nearby make it pretty hard for them to flee even if they have low D.
Let's look at specials. Chameleon skinks are a sick exploration/infiltration unit, a war machine wiper, a constant needle in the back to prevent marching without testing discipline, and a pretty solid choice. Flying cavarly: Terradons have always been awesome, but this new codex gave lizzies an even prettier choice. Ripperdactyls! These guys are a no brainer choice in a lot of lists (a pair of unit of 3). The fact the have frenzy is easily avoidable (they're light flying cavarly, you can freely turn them 180 if you don't plan to charge next turn so they don't face any enemy units and so you don't have to test for forceful charging), they can focus and tear apart small units and can become devastating flankers to help a frontal saurus charge. They can deal massive damage thanks the frog token rule. Other pretty solid competitive choice is the bastiladon. It's a big lazor that deals good damage. No more to say to this guy. Temple guard is also pretty good and one of my all time favourites. I nearly everytime play them, but they're not mandatory, matter of choices, i do just cause i love'em. Their role can be done just a little less skillfully by cheaper normal saurus.
Rares... well, salamanders, though they were nerfed in this edition, remain the strongest pick and a nearly must have. They can tear apart entire infantry blocks with their flaming. Ancient stegadon is always a pretty good choice, but until they nerf cannons monters are lucklusters (that's why i woulnd't play a lord on carnosaur too, even if it's a sick choice in hand to hand). The ancient stegadon still shoots a lot, can use skinks I to survive I based attacks and in hand to hand can bring a punch. So it's a pretty good choice anyway.

Any other choice i didn't mention is sort of playable and useful on alternative lists (ok, maybe not spinodons and troglodon) and it depends on your playstyle or particular list composition. These are just the most common choices you see in tournaments and competitive environments and also my personal favourties. Special characters with lizzies are not mandatory... none of them is terribly gamechanging, but nearly all are viable and interesting depending on your list (i like especially Gor-rok and Tenehuin in skink/swarms themed lists is a boss). But it's up to personal choice.

The playstyle is a mix of aggression from a medium range, magic bombarding and a lot of guerrilla. With lizzies you move, a lot. Circle your enemy, take down with your skirmishers weak targets while your big blocks take the punch in the middle or come in for the kill after the units are weakened!


High Elves! This was my first army. I play these guys since a i was 10 (it's been 17 years) and i lost the count of the points i own... many fond memories. They come from a relatively obsucre competitive panorama (read also they were sort of bad) and became only in the last 2 editions a pretty solid pick also competitively wise.

I won't go into detail with the choices as of now, cause they have tons and most all are competitive depending on the multitude of possibilities you can build with this army.
They are very flexible, they got strong combos and can play at all kind of games. They can go full magic (even though now that Teclis has been considerably nerfed they are not as almighty as before in this field), full melee or full shooting. They won't necessarily be the best in these three but they can compete. Ofc handpicking your choices and the right mix can make them even stronger than focusing on one aspect. They got some very very solid Special Charachters, that you could say are no brainers in some armylists (i wouldn't go as far as must have, but you can't dismiss them). They may seem fragile but they have tons of Ward Saves and magic can increment the ward saves a lot. They are hands down the toughest elf army and can compare in survivability to some other armies np. Ofc if you compare them to dwarves or chaos warriors or nurgle demons they lag behind. But you won't find many others armies that can match the armors and ward saves a list of HE can put on the field if they want. Ofc they got pretty naked units too, but that's all part of the variety of this army.

They can sport some of the most unkillable combos in the game actually. Put 30-40 White Lions, with Alarielle (full High Magic), Alith Anar, a Seahelm BSB and the World Dragon Standard (give it to the unit standard bearer, not the BSB, so you can still get magical defensive items for the BSB) and you get a unit with a ward save 2+ agaisnt all magical attacks, effects and spells, a -1 to shooting against it, a 5+ armor that becomes 3+ against shooting, a 5+ ward save against anything (not only magic) that gets a +1 to the ward save for every spell you cast succesfully, that can test D to rearrange the front when charged from behind or from the flank, immune to fear and terror and stubborn in hand ot hand (they always use unmodified D). Ofc this unit (as any other unit in the game) suffers big aoe spells that negate ward saves, but is still one of the 5 strongest deathstars in the game considering it's not only a defensive nightmare but has enough offensive power to obliterate anything in hand in to hand (they deal a ton of S6 attacks ignoring the always-strike-last given by 2-handed weapons).

High elves are pretty mobile too and got some really good addictions in the latest codex as well, like the phoenix, seahelm hero, sisters of avelorn and such. I can ofc tell you about different choices or synergies depending on what playstyle you would like to play them, but it's impossible to talk mainstream about them, cause they can really do anything. Just one thing. Whatever list you make. 3 words: World Dragon Standard. The devs did a great job balancing magic items and adjusting effects and cost for every army. But they totally screwed on this. It's probably hands down the strongest magical standard in the game and it costs only (absurdly enough) 50 points, so you can give it to normal standard bearers of your special units. This is genuinely the only must have in the army.

Hope this helped and sorry for the wall of text!