The Doom of Malantai

[Caldera02]

An interesting dispute came up yesterday in our gaming group here as were pushed these new nid rules. The Doom has a special "Aura" that every shooting face he affects every unit within 6 inches. The instance that came under dispute was weather or not that "Aura" effects units inside vehicles or not. (I.E. Rhino) Same logic applies to -LD abilities to units inside vehicles. Example, does the broodlords -LD affect, say a rune priest inside said rhino?

Discuss.

[Jwolf]

No, the Doom of Malan'Tai can't kill guys in transports. That this is even a question(for anyone) is a product of poor comprehension of the overall ruleset.

Is the question logical? Absolutely.
Is there any basis in the rules for the question? Absolutely not.

[The.Justinian]

Your argument opens and shuts the case, applause.

I just formulated a similar argument about the wounds from the mawloc hole and how, in the absence of any sentence that says otherwise, cover saves can be taken against it...while the opposition hearkened to 'basis' in the fantasy reality of the universe, similar to the problem here.

I'm just afraid there are too many people that want to see it as a simulation, that want things to make sense...when as a finite game, it can't...it can only function.

I've played magic on and off (currently off) for the last fifteen years, and that seminal experience of a clearly defined, logical set of rules that can explain all circumstances has shaped the way that I play all games. They're abstractions--no more or less than chess, just with prettier peices and more possible combinations.

Now, what's being abstracted, in this case fantasy bugs, fantasy warrior monks, and fantasy space elves, adds a lot to the game. but we can't argue rules based on those ideals--there's a wall of abstraction between the two. We can't ask our plastic SM Captain how he's feeling today.

[crazyredpraetorian]

No, the Doom of Malan'Tai can't kill guys in transports. That this is even a question(for anyone) is a product of poor comprehension of the overall ruleset.

Is the question logical? Absolutely.
Is there any basis in the rules for the question? Absolutely not.

Go, Jwolf, Go Jwolf, Go!

I thought I was going to have a meltdown last night over that rule.

[Caldera02]

Let it be known, I agree. It's kinda ridiculous to hit guys in transports for the points cost of that character. Also, for simplicity sake it's just better to not think like that in game terms even though it makes sense logically. Part of our discussion was that yes if the guys can fire out of a vehicle then you should be able to target them but that just doesn't work with our ruleset. I've conceded that point because The Doom is just broken otherwise lol.

That still doesn't answer the other non damage abilities like the other one I listed however. What do you guys think?

[Ferro]

Hrm. Well I don't agree (yet). Mr. Wolf, can you elaborate? You haven't presented any argument or rationale, other than the voice of authority. And I admit, your Voice of Authority is very convincing. But, in what way can my 'poor comprehension of the overall ruleset' preclude this:

Soul Sucker is not a Psychic Shooting attack. No psychic test, no roll to hit. It's simply a special rule ability which works in every shooting phase. Translated from German, in which I'm almost fluent = "At the beginning of every Shooting Phase (also the enemy's) must every enemy Unit within 6" of the DOOM take a Leadership test (Moralwerttest) on 3d6. If the test is not passed, the Unit suffers 1 Wound for every point they failed the test by. Against these wounds no armor save allowed."

The way we played it, it killed four marines in a Rhino. Why? Because they were a Unit within 6". The overall ruleset can suck my new Codex.

The wording of Soul Sucker doesn't preclude its use if you're stuck in CC either. It says you "must" do this every shooting phase. (German "muss" from mussen, imperative - must.)

Yes, I agree it's stupid. Yes, it's broken. Yes, yes, yes. I know, and I feel dirty. But tell me why I'm wrong.

Happy faces and all that. Please don't break my leg.

And one meltagun shot to the face will take away all ten of his wounds. EDIT: ...unless of course I keep him locked in CC forever. If ever the DOOM could assault TWO units and keep them tied up... ooo the cheese!

[Jwolf]

Happy to elaborate. The basic rule is that units embarked in transports are removed from the board. Thus, they are not on the board to be affected by anything (of affect anything, for that matter). Specific rules do overwrite the general, so we have the case that an IG commander in a Chimera can give orders, and we have a rule that says you measure distance from anywhere on the hull. Now, clearly, the IG commander is not the size of a Chimera, so we're abstracting his location because a specific rule tells us to do so.

The Doom of Malan'tai has no such specific rule, which leaves us with the general case. Thus, for the purpose of the Soul Sucking, units in transports are off the table.

[Ferro]

If they are off the board, and can't effect anything, they couldn't shoot out of fire ports. Yet, they do shoot, and this does effect things.

p.66 Embarking: When the unit embarks, it is removed from the table and placed aside, making a note or otherwise marking that the unit is being transported (we find that placing one of the unit's models on top of the transport works well!).

You seem to assume that 'removed from the table' has the same consequences as being dead, or being in Reserve. But we both know they are not dead or in Reserve. They're in the transport.

I assume that it means, 'don't attempt to shove your models inside the transport, cause they won't fit and you'll break ****. Instead, set them aside and pretend they're all in there snug as a bug.'

'Removed from the table' is a logistical requirement, not a gameplay modifier. Thus, it Sucks their Souls if the hull of the vehicle is within 6".

[Caldera02]

Also, how can a troop inside a rhino capture objectives if indeed they are "off" the board?

[Ferro]

Careful Chris, don't get involved until the dust settles!