Counter-attack Question.

[Commissar Lewis]

Right, so in the new Wolves codex, on Ragnar Blackmane they quoted the counter-attack special rule and said that Ragnar's squad benefits from Furious Charge when counter-attacking.

Now, my question is this. As a Guard player with Straken leading my army, as GW said that counter-attack does indeed benefit from furious charge, would the units receiving FC and CA from Iron Hand get furious charge if counter-attacking?

If so, then my Guard have a slightly better chance of not getting mowed down by berzerkers.

[Caldera02]

I would said that the FAQ for ragnar sets the precedent for that yes.

[Ordo]

yea. your guardsmen should have a better survivability rate with the furious charge and counter attack from straken

[crazyredpraetorian]

I believe there is an IG FAQ regarding Straken and CA/FC and that he doesn't get it, IIRC. If I'm wrong, all I can say is SWEET! But, I think this is a Ragnar only thing.

[weeble1000]

It looks like they made a general ruling on the way Counter-attack interacts with Furious Charge. The answer basically said, "Because of the way Counter-attack is written, a counter-attacking unit with Furious Charge receives that bonus." I'm glad GW has settled that debate.

[DarkLink]

The issue came up as a debate over the meaning of the wording in the Counter Assault rule anyways. This just put GW solidly on one side of the argument.

[Madjob]

It looks like they made a general ruling on the way Counter-attack interacts with Furious Charge. The answer basically said, "Because of the way Counter-attack is written, a counter-attacking unit with Furious Charge receives that bonus." I'm glad GW has settled that debate.

Except at the same time they refuted an argument based on the exact same logic (the way it was written) because they thought it sounded silly (assaulting units using defensive grenades on counter-assaulters).

[Commissar Lewis]

Well, GW was never known for good sense - why it's cheaper to buy from someone else than them still baffles me to this day.

But nonetheless, thanks for the replies. I'm gonna put this point forward to my friend who is a rather tenacious rules lawyer. My point in that GW said in the FAQ that the way CA works gives the furious charge bonus.

Also, there was nothing in the IG FAQ denying that any unit that got CA from Straken didn't get FC. So, I'm going with that those units get FC with CA.

[weeble1000]

@Madjob GW's answer was simply a combination of RAW and RAI. We wrote the rule such that Furious Charge works with Counter-attack, but we realize that you can extend this logic to argue that the assaulting unit is able to use defensive grenades. We never intended for the assaulting unit to get a bonus from Counter-attack, so we're saying right now that they don't.

My impression of this FAQ issue is that GW wants Counter-attack to work with whatever assaulting bonuses the unit has (Righteous Fury, etc.) but not extend into providing a bonus for the unit that initiated the assault.

Without a doubt, GW has gone beyond a strict interpretation of their base rules on this one, but I think that's their prerogative.

[Bean]

GW's answer to the question about Ragnar is specific to Ragnar and Ragnar only. There are two reasons for this.

First, the question and answer only discuss Ragnar. The question is about whether Ragnar and his squad benefit from Furious Assault when Counter-Attacking. The question doesn't mention any other units with that USR combination. In addition, the answer is specific to Ragnar and Ragnar only. It says, "Therefore Ragnar's unit does indeed benefit from Furious Charge." It doesn't say anything about other counter-attacking units benefiting from furious charge.

Second, the answer itself is a clear alteration of the rules in the actual codex. It is, essentially, a specific exception to the normal rules for Ragnar and his unit.

A rule in the Space Wolves codex or Space Wolves FAQ doesn't apply to other armies, and a rule which is specifically about Ragnar Blackmane doesn't apply to models which aren't Ragnar Blackmane. This ruling is both in the Space Wolves FAQ and specific to Ragnar Blackmane. It does not give anyone other than Ragnar Blackmane the ability to use Furious Assault while Counter-Attacking.